2015 EX-L (w/nav) audio upgrade: sound quality, amp, etc.
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Thread: 2015 EX-L (w/nav) audio upgrade: sound quality, amp, etc.

  1. #1
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    2015 EX-L (w/nav) audio upgrade: sound quality, amp, etc.

    Hi all! First post.

    I was really unhappy with the stock/OEM sound quality in the 2015 EX-L (w/ nav). It was muddy and lacked any high end whatsoever, even though it has separate tweeters in the front. So I decided to embark on upgrading the audio, doing all the install work myself. The Odyssey is the family van; I have a 335i with the Logic 7 Harman Kardon setup and it's absolutely superb for my taste. My goal is to get as good or better sound in the Odyssey. That may prove to be impossible for various reasons, but this is how I (attempt to) have fun.

    The first step is upgraded speakers. I decided to go with the JL Audio C2-650 component set for the front, and the C2-650x for the rear sliding doors. I just installed both sets today and, well... there is definitely a noticable improvement in sound quality. That said, I feel like I've traded one set of problems for another. Lemme 'splain...

    The midrange of the front components is clear, though kinda harsh, and the tweeters seem like they need a tad more attenuation than the -2db provided. The rear coaxial speakers are somewhat more balanced. In order to salvage the sound, I've pushed the fader toward the rear a fair amount (maybe 35% front, 65% rear) to avoid the front's midrange harshness. Interestingly, I tend to favor a similar fader balance in my 335i, too, though the HKs are significantly less harsh than these JLs appear to be -- I just like a fuller/louder sound slightly behind me.

    I noticed the sound quality issue during the install when I tested out the left channel with the new speakers (door open and panel off) and compared it to the stock/OEM right channel speakers. The OEM speakers appeared to have a lot more bass, a milder midrange, and basically an unnoticeable high-end. The JL speakers sounded clearer, though somewhat thinner, and had that harsh midrange. I verified speakers are correctly wired in-phase since out-of-phase speakers annoy the hell out of me.

    My questions are:
    • Will these JL speakers take a while to break in? I'm skeptical that any break-in period will resolve the issues I hear.
    • If not, will an aftermarket amp correct these sound quality issues? (Is the factory amp just that bad?) Seeing as how I've never exclusively replaced/upgraded an amp in any audio setup I've owned, I'm a little skeptical.
    • If not, do I need a parametric EQ to dial-in the best sound?
    • Is it possible to tap into the pre-out of the "AUDIO-NAVIGATION UNIT" I see in the wiring diagrams and send that signal to the aftermarket amp? I don't trust that "STEREO AMPLIFIER", especially since it has the ANC input.
    • Is it possible to replace the EX-L OEM amp with a pull from a Touring Elite? Is that of better quality or is it the same crap, just more channels?
    In writing this out, I remembered there's ANC at play here, too. I'm going to try disabling the ANC tomorrow and seeing if that helps at all. As I understand it, it kicks in when a cylinder is turned off, which is clearly not happening in my driveway (I think). I know it's not necessary for just a basic speaker upgrade, but I'm wondering if it's messing with the sound at all. Also, my kids occasionally complain about getting carsick. I wonder if the ANC is the culprit? (Or maybe it's just my driving!)

    Anyway, my next steps are to buy the Touring Elite Rear Pillar Garnish set so I can mount a pair of the JL Audio C2-350x speakers back there. Now that I'm comfortable pulling apart the interior trim, I'm not too worried about that install since I'm just tapping into the rear speakers. I'll run both sets of 4 ohm rear speakers in parallel to produce a 2 ohm load.

    Then I'll be replacing the factory subwoofer with a JL Audio 8W1v3-4. At this point I'll be adding an amplifier. The main question will be whether it's a mono amp for the sub, or a 5-channel for everything (including the sub). I'm leaning towards the 5 channel route, using an Alpine MRV-V500 for this since it seems nicely up to the task. I expect to mount it under the driver's seat.

    Ideally, I'd like to eventually apply sound deadening to the whole car. But that's a fairly expensive (and time consuming) proposition. Also, to my wife's eyes/ears, it does "nothing". I'm wondering how much it would help with frequency response in the doors and car overall.

    FWIW, I did the front component set install as follows:
    • routed new 16 gauge speaker wire for tweeters down from their location to the kick panel area. (left original wires in place)
    • attached Metra 72-7800 connector to OEM speaker harness in door and used that as the signal source.
    • fished two 16 gauge speaker wires through rubber boot in doors: one for running source signal from Metra connector back inside to crossover; the other for running the woofer signal from the crossover back out to the speaker in the door.
    • mounted the crossover behind the parking brake on the drivers side and behind the glove box on the passenger side
    Routing the tweeter wiring was a whole lot easier than I expected since you can basically see the location from the kick panel area. Fishing the wires through the rubber boot thing was a royal pain in the arse, but it ended up working nicely. (I didn't want to put the crossovers in the door, nor did I want to mess with the wire harnesses going into the door.) It probably took me a good 5 hours for me to do since it was my first time taking everything apart. I also had to fix a few door-related mistakes along the way, and had some connector wiring woes. (Good news is I can now take apart the front doors in < 5 min and put them back together in about the same.)

    The rear speaker install went a lot smoother (like 20 min each side) since there was no custom wiring necessary; the Metras did their job nicely. The big challenge was finding the exact location the sliding door needed to be in to get the panel off and on again.

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    Just following up here with some learnings since car audio these days is not as simple as it would seem...

    I can imagine that Honda heavily EQ'd the signal coming out of the factory preamp & amp combo to make the factory speakers sound anywhere near acceptable. The new JL speakers are still receiving the heavily-corrected signal, hence my dissatisfaction with the speaker upgrade. That's my theory, at least.

    So it seems I'm going to need to drop a good amount of $$$ on a DSP along with an amp. The JL Fix 86 seems like it will do the job nicely, though at almost $400, it's not cheap. Good audio is priceless, though, right?

    Has anyone else gone this route?

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    Hi wrksprfct, you have a nice project going here
    I am about to do a similar project once I get my 2011 Touring next week. I have been searching quite a bit and seems the Odyssey is not the most common "audio-build-vehicle" compared the BMW's we have. I totally rebuilt the sound in my 328i and had weeks and months just reading up on different tips and DIY-projects. Anyway lets get it going and a nice writeup you have started here.

    My general experiences from quite a few builds, the latest build complete overhauls of a couple of BMW's and Porsches is to always go with the amplifier first. New speaker can definitely clear up the sound a bit, but the improvements are always incremental. Sometimes adding quality speaker component that require more power can actually give you the opposite effect. The stock speakers are often paired well with the lousy stock amp to just provide the maximum amount of sound for the wattage and pre-EQ put in.

    A lot of people seems to just add rear speakers and parallel with the middle ones and while that may give you "more sound" for rear passengers what you do is actually only stealing power from the front rear sets. Unless you amp it, it's not the optimal way for great sound. If you amp it you might as well give them separate channels that will give you full control over your settings

    I will most likely put in a quality amp like a JL XD600/6 and test it out. Following step will likely be to replace the front components with something way better than stock and also rebuild the stock subwoofer with new woofer that can handle brideged power from 2 channels of the JL amp. Just this is likely go give me a sound way better than any Touring Elite has.

    Now I'm curious about the pre-amp signals, where they go and where the stock amp is located? Have you figured that out? Does the head unit provide any form of low level output (perferred) or do you have to use high level signals.

    Good luck with your project! Let's share our discoveries!

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    Hey MikeeSww, glad to see my rambling was somewhat useful!

    So, I almost bought that JL XD600/6, but it was a bit too much $$$ for my meager (though expanding) budget right now. Since I could get the Alpine for at least $250 less, I went with that for now. This is because I assumed worst case that I wouldn't be able to use any mythical preamp out and I'd need the FiX 86 to correct the high-level audio signal from the Ody's internal amp in order to have any hope of making things sound good.

    Yeah, so I was kinda nave in that I didn't expect the Ody's (pre-)amp to be doing such heavy EQ to the signal. I mean, based on everything I've read, I'm assuming that it is, and I think that's a fair assumption. Would love to measure it. This reminds me of what Bose does to make their 4" speakers sound acceptable. But I digress...

    Re: driving the rear pillar speakers off the same channel as the sliding doors... well, that's all I can afford right now. If this goes well and I have some $$$ lying around, I will definitely swap out the 4.1 Alpine for a true 6 channel amp and a mono sub amp. I still have to get the rear pillars, so those speakers are not part of this initial install phase.

    I'm having a blast reacquainting myself with Ohm's law from my college days. The only real question I have is if my hare-brained scheme to run two sets of speakers off the rear channel of the Alpine will work well (enough) and be safe.

    The specs for the Alpine are:
    * 40 watts RMS x 4 + 150 watts RMS x 1 at 4 ohms
    * 60 watts RMS x 4 + 250 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms

    I'm hoping to get the following out of it:

    * front channel: 40W RMS @ 4Ω
    * rear channel: 60W RMS @ 2Ω (2 sets of 4Ω speakers in parallel)
    * sub channel: 150W RMS @ 4Ω

    Does that sound logical/possible? The amp is clearly rated at 2Ω, so that's the only reason that I'm considering wiring that set in parallel. That and I can adjust the gain separately on that amp channel. Just wondering how this will affect safety, longevity, etc. of the components. Still reading up on all this.

    I hope to have time this weekend to pull apart the dash and trace things. I'd love to actually do the install (I have all parts now), but I don't expect to have a large enough block of contiguous hours to accomplish that. :-(

    Anyway, I'll try and post photos/diagrams should I unearth any new info.

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    I love building car audio with the stuff I have lying around. It gives you infinite improvements relative the money you actually spent ($0).

    The JL XD600/6v2 I have sure is pricey but I must say it is the best amp I have ever owned. Alpine makes solid stuff too. I have a PDX 900/5 powering everything in my Boxster and gain settings are very low or my door rattles like I was driving an old Impala with 15 inch subs in the trunk through the hood :P

    Your ohm calculations are correct! If you parallel 2 sets of 4 ohm speakers > outcome is 2 ohm total resistance. If the speakers were 2 ohm you can serial them and get 4 ohm. I would not worry too much about the total RMS since you use the high/low pass filters and gain when you tune the system to make it sound its best.

    What a great amp will do is give you more power, clear sound and manages to keep the sinus waves at high levels of volume. When you get distortion it is time to play with the low pass filter and reduce the gain, thus lowering the power to the speaker. Hope that makes sense. You simply adjust the setting to work with what you have.

    I will do a little write up the coming month or so when I get to it.

    BTW Do you know where the stock amp is located?

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    Heh, nice to have extra car audio equipment lying around! I'm sure I'll be there soon...

    Coincidentally, I came across an interesting post on another forum site that talks about how the JL Audio stuff is better engineered (which I expected, of course). I found this passage particularly interesting/enlightening:

    Here is what makes the JL Audio HD900/5 special. It is strictly regulated on both the power supply and output sections. So regardless of the voltage supply or load impedance, the JL will not decline in power. [...] The JL Audio HD also has separate power supplies for the 4-channel highpass and sub sections so it is like two discrete amplifiers in a single chassis. The one issue that you need to be cautious of is you want to restrict your highpass satellites to 4-ohms. That means staying away from two 4-ohm speakers in parallel on highpass channels or staying away from scenarios where the front and rear channels are different load impedances. Btw, it doesn't matter on the sub side and wouldn't be a factor if there was room for separate front and rear power supplies as you have in the HD600/4. If that would be a problem then look into the JL Audio XD1000/5 unregulated amplifier, which is also less cost. Most of the XD series test 35% better than their ratings.

    Lots to unpack there! :-)

    The setup described is slightly different from mine due to talk of high-pass channels and satellites; the key part I'm focusing in on is the recommendation to avoid different impedances between front and rear channels and how it relates to the power section. I expect the Alpine makes more compromises due to its cost, and therefore does not have a discrete power supply for each amp channel pair. I need to understand better how different loads on each channel pair will affect the amp's performance and longevity. My sense is that having it power "unbalanced" loads is not ideal.

    Also, discussion of unregulated vs. regulated power supply and output sections is interesting. Need to read up on that!

    The guy doing the explaining, David, drops some mad science over a few posts. All of it is super-helpful for me because, for example, I didn't realize that the electrical system could be running on ~12v (engine off) or ~14v (engine running, alternator charging). So that's why JL lists specs for each voltage!

    Aaaaaanyway, back to the Ody...

    Re: the location of the factory amp, I expect it to be in the dash area. We shall see.

    One curious thing I forgot to mention w/r/t this mythical tappable line-level out from the "AUDIO-NAVIGATION UNIT": for the models without rear-seat entertainment, it appears there's just a stereo signal (front L/R) going from the "AUDIO-NAVIGATION UNIT" to the "STEREO AMPLIFIER". The fancier RES-equipped models appear to have 4 additional channels (center, rear left, rear right, and sub) coming out of the A-NU and into the amp. I wonder where this supposed EQ curve is being applied: in the A-NU or in the amp?

    So, the main takeaway here is if I were to tap this stereo line-level signal and route it to the amp input, I'd lose the ability to fade front/rear, and I might lose the factory volume knob, too. (That's kind of a non-starter.) I guess the stereo signal source makes sense for this trim line; there's no fancy processing, per se; front and rear get the identical signals. The 10 channel (12 w/ tweeters) system in the RES packages get the discrete outputs and amps, and probably has some DSP to do the center channel. (Maybe I'm assuming too much here.)

    I'm basing all this off the snaps of the service manual somewhere in the now-legendary post by nomorenow:
    (See other good pics in his Speakers bucket and on his Photobucket account.)

    I'm assuming FL PRE +/- and FR PRE +/- are the front left/right channels. I'm guessing "SW +B" has to do with the steering wheel, and the two RS 485 wires are data. Maybe I'll shell out $50 for a month's access to the manuals on ServiceExpress.

    I guess all this is why folks go to a shop to have this done. But that would be too easy and not nearly as much fun as doing it myself. And I wouldn't end up with any tools in the end.

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    So shortly after posting the tome above, I stumbled upon a short unassuming post here (2012 EX-L stereo install example) by user Fortension. It links over to a great post on diymobileaudio.com by Simplicity in Sound, which has some great info and pics! Fortension does a great job of summarizing:

    * High-level signals can be accessed behind glove box, because that's where the amp is. That's nice to hear; no dismantling of the dash.
    * High-level signal quality appears to be pretty good/flat from the factory amp per the installer on diymobileaudio. Interesting, because it doesn't sound that way. Unless the JL C2 650s are not as great as I expect them to be. Regardless, I plan on installing the FiX to see what if any difference it provides. Hopefully since it has all those EQ bands, I'll be able to customize the signal to my liking. Or I'll return/sell it if a new amp is truly good enough.

    The SiS install used the Mosconi D2 80.6DSP, an interesting device that is a bit out of my price range. It's super-compact (5-3/4 inches deep!) and fits under the driver's seat nicely, which is really cool. I definitely liked the apparent ease of install: velcro an MDF board to the under-seat vent and use that as the base to mount the amp on.

    I had some time this weekend to poke around in the van a bit more and test dry-fitting the amp while I await a few more things for the install. Unfortunately, the Alpine MRV-V500 is not as compact (it's 8-5/8 inches deep) and as a result it stuck out much further than the Mosconi. There's also some awkwardness with how much it overlaps the floor mat, but I think i can work around that. The Alpine is also a bit taller than the Mosconi, so I'm gonna mount the amp on a piece of ABS instead of another MDF board to keep things more vertically constrained. This is relevant because I'm trying to push the amp as far back as possible, where the vent contours changes to an incline at a certain point, which means the MDF board will "ride" a bit higher. (You can see this in the SiS install photos.)

    All of this was making me seriously consider the JL amps since they are about 1-1/2 inches smaller, depth-wise. I'm sure it might be a better fit, but I'm gonna try and make do with the Alpine for now. We shall see...

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    Any confirmation where the stock amp is and how big it is?

    Also, what size speakers are you using?
    Great post and thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aus View Post
    Any confirmation where the stock amp is and how big it is?

    Also, what size speakers are you using?
    Great post and thanks.
    The amp is directly behind the glove box. It's mounted vertically and is fairly compact. Maybe ~1.5" deep by ~7" tall and ~6" wide? (I measured it, but I forget the dimensions offhand.) The two connectors are at the bottom.

    Both JL C2 650 sets I've installed (the components and coaxials) are 6.5". They fit the stock locations nicely with the American International HSB524 speaker adapter. The front tweeters were a semi-snug fit, but I decided to duct tape them around the back edges to keep them seated more securely.

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    Just a quick update...

    My progress on the project has been slower than I'd like since I can only dedicate a handful of hours each weekend. I have to deal with summer in Miami, which means no working at night (bugs) and taking things slow due to the heat and humidity. Ugh. Oh, and my wife needs the car every now and then. ;-)

    But the good news is I am almost done! It's a lot of work for a first-timer, but I'm having a lot of fun.

    Here's what I've done so far:
    • fabricated a mount for the fuse holder under the hood
    • swapped out the rear pillars for the Touring version and installed new speakers into them
    • replaced the factory subwoofer
    • fabricated mounts for the amp & dsp, mounted them under the front seats, and wired them together (power + turn-on lead, RCAs)
    • made a new hole for a ground under the driver's seat
    The two things left for me to do are the most challenging/annoying: routing the power through the firewall to the fuse holder, and tapping into the amp speaker output / hooking up speakers.

    I'd like to drill a new hole for the 4 gauge power wire, so I purchased the Stinger PG-12 grommet. But it's hard to find a place for it that I can reach via a drill and isn't risky. I don't want to accidentally hit important lines in the engine compartment as I drill through. I'd really like to avoid shoving the wire through or around the existing grommet.

    After tapping into the factory amp's speaker output to get the signal to the DSP, I was going to route the new amp's output back into the other end of the factory speaker wires I cut, so I can reuse the factory speaker wire to power all speakers. But now I'm considering running new speaker wires from the new amp to each speaker. I effectively have new wires for the front already run since I ran two pairs through each door to avoid mounting the crossovers in the door, though I'd have to take apart the front doors to hook up the speakers to the new wires instead of the Metra adapter on the factory wires. I originally shied away from running new speaker wire to all the speakers because I didn't want to mess with routing new speaker wires through the articulated harness for the sliding doors. (The front doors were hard enough.) But I just realized the crimp connectors I used to tap into the rear speaker wire for the pillar speakers could be used as a "way in" to the sliding door speakers (instead of driving the rear pilar speakers in parallel in the current config). In this new setup, the sliding door speakers would still be using factory wiring from the speaker to the door harness, but whatevs. Oh, I'd also have to route a new speaker wire to the sub in this case, which is a slight pain because it means taking out all the panels again.

    Now that I've written that out, I think I'm just gonna do double the delicate/awkward soldering work instead of ripping the whole car apart again! The speakers are moderate wattage, but the sub is somewhat higher

    Oh, and one minor thing I have to get sorted out is that I lost one of the screws for the NVX fuse holder. It seems to be a hard screw to come by: a M8 x 1.0. I might just have to buy another fuse holder. :-(

    I took a bunch of photos of my adventures and will post them soon! (So much for a quick update...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrksprfct View Post
    Just a quick update...

    My progress on the project has been slower than I'd like since I can only dedicate a handful of hours each weekend. I have to deal with summer in Miami, which means no working at night (bugs) and taking things slow due to the heat and humidity. Ugh. Oh, and my wife needs the car every now and then. ;-)

    But the good news is I am almost done! It's a lot of work for a first-timer, but I'm having a lot of fun.

    Here's what I've done so far:
    • fabricated a mount for the fuse holder under the hood
    • swapped out the rear pillars for the Touring version and installed new speakers into them
    • replaced the factory subwoofer
    • fabricated mounts for the amp & dsp, mounted them under the front seats, and wired them together (power + turn-on lead, RCAs)
    • made a new hole for a ground under the driver's seat
    The two things left for me to do are the most challenging/annoying: routing the power through the firewall to the fuse holder, and tapping into the amp speaker output / hooking up speakers.

    I'd like to drill a new hole for the 4 gauge power wire, so I purchased the Stinger PG-12 grommet. But it's hard to find a place for it that I can reach via a drill and isn't risky. I don't want to accidentally hit important lines in the engine compartment as I drill through. I'd really like to avoid shoving the wire through or around the existing grommet.

    After tapping into the factory amp's speaker output to get the signal to the DSP, I was going to route the new amp's output back into the other end of the factory speaker wires I cut, so I can reuse the factory speaker wire to power all speakers. But now I'm considering running new speaker wires from the new amp to each speaker. I effectively have new wires for the front already run since I ran two pairs through each door to avoid mounting the crossovers in the door, though I'd have to take apart the front doors to hook up the speakers to the new wires instead of the Metra adapter on the factory wires. I originally shied away from running new speaker wire to all the speakers because I didn't want to mess with routing new speaker wires through the articulated harness for the sliding doors. (The front doors were hard enough.) But I just realized the crimp connectors I used to tap into the rear speaker wire for the pillar speakers could be used as a "way in" to the sliding door speakers (instead of driving the rear pilar speakers in parallel in the current config). In this new setup, the sliding door speakers would still be using factory wiring from the speaker to the door harness, but whatevs. Oh, I'd also have to route a new speaker wire to the sub in this case, which is a slight pain because it means taking out all the panels again.

    Now that I've written that out, I think I'm just gonna do double the delicate/awkward soldering work instead of ripping the whole car apart again! The speakers are moderate wattage, but the sub is somewhat higher

    Oh, and one minor thing I have to get sorted out is that I lost one of the screws for the NVX fuse holder. It seems to be a hard screw to come by: a M8 x 1.0. I might just have to buy another fuse holder. :-(

    I took a bunch of photos of my adventures and will post them soon! (So much for a quick update...)
    Please post pics and keep us updated!
    Thanks for the speaker sizes. Could you just cut some holes in the rear pillars to mount the speakers? That's the main thing I'd like to add since my kids can't hear the music in back well.
    BUT, I also have an old Helix amp, 6.5" Focal Utopia separates sitting in my storage unit I'd love to use again.

    Is the output from the head unit analog or digital? I have an EX-L, Nav with RES. I'm assuming they have the same head unit?
    Thanks again.

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