Odyssey trans questions??

[atl3128]

This will be my first post here and what a great and informative site you guys have.
I have a 2002 Odyssey ex with 196k miles currently on it I had the trans rebuilt on it at around 182k. I was told by the mechanic that it was a good idea to add a trans cooler and some type of inline filter. He also suggested that I not use the Honda fluid but Amsoil or even Max life over the factory Honda stuff and to service the trans more often. I would like to make this trans last as long as the original but is all of this necessary? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[New Dad New Van]

Welcome to the site!

In a nutshell, yes - those are all good recommendations.

[aaronm]

People try a lot of things to prevent Ody transmission failures. It makes people feel better (smarter) to do these things but there's probably no proof that they are prolonging their transmissions. If there were truly a way to prevent the trannies from dying, everybody would do it, and no additional Ody transmission would die. But Ody transmissions continue to die at high rates and nobody has a guaranteed prevention.

I have a Magnefine in-line filter, but that doesn't prevent internal damage such as my 3rd gear clutch pack disintegrating.

The only way to prevent it from dying is to not drive it or just drive it on the highway where it stays in high gear the whole time. Driving around town, up and down through 2nd and 3rd gear will end up killing it.

[atl3128]

Thanks for the input I think I will go ahead and put in a cooler and an in line filter it can't hurt right. As far as the fluid goes should I go with max life or amsoil over the honda fluid and should I just drain the pan and top of the trans?

[0dyfamily]

....The only way to prevent it from dying is to not drive it or just drive it on the highway where it stays in high gear the whole time.....

Not true. Staying in top two gears is the way for it to last a very long time.

.... Driving around town, up and down through 2nd and 3rd gear will end up killing it....

This I can believe for 2002-2004 trannies, according to the NHTSA report I linked in joefi's big thread on "Root Cause and Fix?". That report is over 100 pages long, and details how different circumstances acting together (timing of an installed plug & spring, plus port size into third clutch pack) can yield insufficient ATF flow into the third clutch, resulting in very high temps, fluid degradation, and clutch pack temps over 300-deg celcius. It's a self-feeding disaster. Honda made engineering drawing & production changes in the last half of the 2004 model year for the BYBA coded transmission, and these have shown markedly improved reliability, on par with what we expect from a Honda.

My big gripe is that Honda won't tell us what the cut-in VIN or date was for these very positive changes.

OF

[aaronm]

OdyFamily, So you agree with me that if it stays in gears 4 and 5 the Ody transmission shouldn't have a problem?

[0dyfamily]

Yup. swedepower, and other users who primarily run the nation's highways with their 2002-2004 Odys, have gone over 200,000 miles on a single tranny. The weak link is that 3rd clutch pack and its deficient ATF flow (read this as insufficient flow to perform needed heat exchange duties). As you correctly pointed out, frequent 2nd to 3rd gear shifts can be a real problem if one has a tranny with the mis-timed bits installed. Honda fixed this, but again I have no idea when in 2004.

The problem is, we can't stay in top gear forever (which again, I think you are correctly and eruditely alluding to). Eventually, we have to slow down, get into lower gears, and do some city driving, no matter how many highway miles we pile onto these things.

Also, even in 4th gear, if you're climbing a monster grade, it's no insurance against high temperatures. I had two Yakima boxes up top, 25-knot headwinds, and had to fight that wind resistance going up So Cal's Cajon Pass on I-15 heading north. My thermocouple datalogger recorded ATF exit temps of 255-deg F, and the stock cooler was knocking this down to 202-deg F before returning it to the tranny. I've got the front end of my Ody removed right now, sizing up how to install my Tru-Cool ATF cooler (and throw away the stock Honda finned drinking straw masquerading as a cooler). I'd have done this long ago if I'd used my head and bought a Tru-Cool 4544 (easy to fit, huge capacity, great heat exchange properties). Like a numbnuts, I purchased a monster Tru-Cool 4739-1 ATF cooler. Great cooler, but I'm tearing my meager hair out, trying to figure a way to make it fit!

A guy named Ben Wymore fitted one, but had to settle for behind the bumper bar:

http://www.wymore.net/benandtricia/blog/ben3/?p=653

My goal is to fit it a bit higher without getting crushed by the bumper cover & grill.

OF

[0dyfamily]

Sorry, bad link. Here it is:

Ben Wymore's Tru-Cool Max Install

Holy smokes, how did I write that? I do agree with you, aaron! It's just I put the word "Not" in front of "true" on that post, and ran out on the edit clock. I can't change it.

Yes, yes, yes, keeping it in top gear is good. You are so correct.

Really, I don't write like a blithering fool every day...only on weekends.

OF

[aaronm]

OK, I was just confused by the "not true." I've wanted to edit posts before but didn't do it quick enough also.

[0dyfamily]

Thanks, aaron. Anyways, now for me to get back on track...

atl3128, welcome to the site. New Dad New Van is one of our resident mechanically-minded gurus. He's usually on-the-money with good suggestions.

It seems your mechanic has the right idea. The old spec Honda ATF-Z1 fluid did not seem to prevent our Gen 2 trannies from turning into grenades, so a lot of people (myself included) made the switch to synthetics. I'm running AmSOil Universal ATF in both of our Odys. Here's the cooler I'm attempting to fit:

Cooler fit check & HID's.JPG

If you get a cooler, I recommend the Tru-Cool 4544. You can attach it to the air conditioning condensor, or use the hardware and follow Mel's definitive thread here:

Mel's ATF Cooler Install Thread

OF

P.S. The headlights look goofy because I baked them apart to install HID projectors.

[benwymore]

Like a numbnuts, I purchased a monster Tru-Cool 4739-1 ATF cooler. Great cooler, but I'm tearing my meager hair out, trying to figure a way to make it fit!

A guy named Ben Wymore fitted one, but had to settle for behind the bumper bar:

http://www.wymore.net/benandtricia/blog/ben3/?p=653

My goal is to fit it a bit higher without getting crushed by the bumper cover & grill.

OF

I guess that makes me a numbnuts by association, eh?

-Ben

[0dyfamily]

Welcome to the forum, Ben!

No, Ben, you're not a numbnuts...you actually got yours to fit, plus you added some elegant engineering solutions:
- Tee fitting for digital ATF temperature readout
- Magnefine in the right spot (as in serviceable)
- Thermostat bypass to enable proper operating temperatures

The proof of your ATF cooling system design effectiveness? You successfully towed one of the larger TrailManor trailers all over America with ZERO trans problems. That's a huge load for the little Ody tranny. I urge all to take a look at Ben's blogs on his trailer travels. I mean, that's a lot of trailer!

I'm actually trying to copy your setup without knocking off my PSF cooler (a 9-row job who's height doesn't permit me to use your clever behind-the-bumper bar setup you tried). I say clever, because all of the other heat exchangers behind the bumper bar work just fine, so why wouldn't your setup? Well, you proved that it worked, and now I'm trying to fit the beast cooler, too.

I still haven't been able to get this thing mounted straight, and the cooler been sitting in a box for a couple years (hence the self-deprecating numbnuts declaration). The clearance is very narrow up top on the left and right sides of my intended cooler position. I'm going to buy some aluminum channel this week for mounting my electric fan in front of the ATF cooler.

[martinlabarre]

I have a Odyssey 2003 with 165000km (102000 miles). I towed my travel trailer (3100lbs) for 6000 miles since 3 years without any problem. I have the original tranny. Of course I have installed a Tru-Cool 4544 cooler and a tempo gauge at the exit of the torque converter. The maximum temp I saw was 205 degrees F during towing with the trailer at 62mph on New Jersey turnpike on a 100 degrees sunny dau of July. Usually the trans temp is around 170-190 degrees when I tow. Without towing the temp is below 140 degrees. I have replaced the trans filter once at 65000 miles and I flush the trans once a year.

[atl3128]

After speaking with the mechanic about extending the life of the trans I have decided to install the Tru-Cool 4544 cooler as well as a remote filter I am thinking of going with the B&M Amazon.com: B&M 80277 Universal Remote Transmission Filter Kit: Automotive mainly because the filters are readily available and easier to change. It has been about 10k since the trans was rebuilt and the van has since seen mostly highway miles so the fluid is still a bright red I was thinking of draining whats in the pan and just toping it off with either max life or Amsoil ATF and doing it again every other oil change. Which fluid it most recommended between the two and is it beneficial just to drain the pan and add 3.5 or so quarts?

[benwymore]

Welcome to the forum, Ben!

No, Ben, you're not a numbnuts...you actually got yours to fit, plus you added some elegant engineering solutions:
- Tee fitting for digital ATF temperature readout
- Magnefine in the right spot (as in serviceable)
- Thermostat bypass to enable proper operating temperatures

I can't emphasize enough the value of having a temperature gauge. As soon as the torque converter unlocks as the grade increases, the temperature starts to climb. Downshift, and the temperature drops. I wouldn't tow without it.

The proof of your ATF cooling system design effectiveness? You successfully towed one of the larger TrailManor trailers all over America with ZERO trans problems. That's a huge load for the little Ody tranny. I urge all to take a look at Ben's blogs on his trailer travels. I mean, that's a lot of trailer!

It's been a while, but I think I was generally below 200 degrees, and always below 210. And I was running just ATF-Z1. I checked the fluid after several trips, and it was till pink like new!

I'm actually trying to copy your setup without knocking off my PSF cooler (a 9-row job who's height doesn't permit me to use your clever behind-the-bumper bar setup you tried). I say clever, because all of the other heat exchangers behind the bumper bar work just fine, so why wouldn't your setup? Well, you proved that it worked, and now I'm trying to fit the beast cooler, too.

I had installed Honda's "heavy duty" PSF cooler (see Car Crash! « Ben's Blog). In retrospect, I could have purchased a third-party solution for much less.

-Ben