Front caliper rattle follow up

[Michael Russo]

199 Ody - A week ago, I replaced both front calipers with factory new ones (not rebuilt) from Majestic Honda - for exactly this rattling problem. I didn't use rebuilt calipers for fear that the rattling might have something to do with worn slots where the caliper pins slide in and out.

The brand new calipers (and new pads, with Permatex Hi-temp synthetic caliper grease) absolutely fixed the rattle... for about 400 miles. Now at 800 miles post new calipers, the passenger side caliper is rattling like an angry snake. So it cannot be an issue with worn pins or pin slots (assuming the calipers I bought were actually new, not passed off as new).

Checking the brake assembly with the wheel off, I believe Mr. Brooks' assessment here about the caliper not holding tight is correct (see post above, 05-10-2012, 06:48 PM #7 by ericbrooks). The caliper/pad assembly easily backs way off the disk - and the pads themselves are not loose, by the way - they are firmly gripped inside the mounted part of the caliper.

So if the sliding part of the caliper is in essence being "forced open", there's only two reasons I see for that... first, the wheel bearing on that side has enough lateral play to allow the wheel/brake rotor to move in and out and expand the caliper. Second is that the roads I drive on are so bumpy, the vibration rattles the caliper apart. In both cases, such movement is probably facilitated by my generous application of the caliper grease, which makes the calipers slide more easily... ordinarily a desirable thing.

My van has 233,000 miles on it, but the drive axle/wheel bearing assemblies have only 33,000 miles. The bearing is tight. So it has to be the abominably crummy roads in Waco, Texas that would bash an M-11 tank to bits that's rattling my new calipers.

The sleeved pin solution seems the only possible remedy, except that it too seems temporary - at least with regard to a caliper rattle induced by rough streets, because rough streets will beat that rubber sleeve to bits before a loose bearing will.

I still have the original calipers and just finished putting the rubber-sleeved pin from one of those calipers into the upper slot of the new caliper... I'll find out shortly if this made one iota of difference. Not optimistic...

Michael

[ackack]

Hope the rubber sleeved pin works for you. I was rather impressed with the construction of that item; it didn't seem like it would deconstruct very easily even on bad roads, but then again I have never been to Waco. In my case, I have driven about 3,000 highway and local miles in about 5 mos. since I made the switch & rattle has not returned.

[Our Odyssey]

Interesting - I have never heard the rattle that is being discussed and only recently did a lube job on the caliper slides and noticed the rubber sleeve. The only thing I noticed after putting it on (vs off) is that the braking feel was not quite as good. Felt a bit more 'dead', if that makes any sense. Otherwise, no noise difference.

[evbrad2002]

Here's another data point to muddy the waters. I have an '01 Ody with some of the typical front end noises (recently had all front strut mount pieces-parts refreshed which helped with some of the noises we were getting but not all, and now have a new intermittent rubbing-groan up front, but that's another story), some of which seem to be from caliper rattle. I tried replacing top pins with rubber-sleeved bottom pins (also replaced bottom pins with new ones) and, if anything, my rattle is worse...

I just picked up some .002 brass shim material to try next per suggestion by Jerry O. Will report back as to how this works.

[ackack]

Here's another data point to muddy the waters. I have an '01 Ody with some of the typical front end noises (recently had all front strut mount pieces-parts refreshed which helped with some of the noises we were getting but not all, and now have a new intermittent rubbing-groan up front, but that's another story), some of which seem to be from caliper rattle. I tried replacing top pins with rubber-sleeved bottom pins (also replaced bottom pins with new ones) and, if anything, my rattle is worse...

I just picked up some .002 brass shim material to try next per suggestion by Jerry O. Will report back as to how this works.

Ugh. As I recall, on the rubber-sleeved pin, the diameter of the rubber portion slightly exceeded the diameter of the metal portion which ought to prevent metal-to-metal contact between the pin and the caliper holes through which it slides. Theoretically, that feature eliminated the rattle. It did in my case ... so far. In your case, it might be something other than the pins making a rattle. Are your control arm bushings okay? Especially the lower one. Maybe if you try the shims, and the rattle is still persistent, it is more evidence that your rattle is something other than the pins and thus the rubber-sleeved pins were doing their job after all.

[evbrad2002]

I do beleive there are at least two sources of noises coming from my front end and, although my local independent Honda shop inspected my control arm bushings per my request and did not believe they required servicing, I did notice some cracking in the lower bushings while the van was suspended on jackstands during my pin swap. So, I'm not convinced fresh bushings wouldn't take care of some of the noise. However, the high frequency rattle portion of the noise that I am hearing does seem to go away if I apply the brakes a bit, supporting some sort of brake related noise. I say "seem" because I haven't found a long enough stretch of the particular sort of bumps that bring out the rattle to allow me to test this definitively.

[RV Hecker]

greetings earthlings,

I believe the answer to why the pads stop rattling after replacing the caliper pins, is that greasing the pins allows the caliper to move freely and not stick in position after the brakes are applied. Whe the caliper pins are not well greased, the brake pads stick. This causes a bigger than normal gap between brake piston and pads, then it can rattle. Keep the caliper pins well greased and you will have not rattling.

RV

[rayobot]

Keep the caliper pins well greased and you will have not rattling.

Absolutely correct RV. But from what every one who has only applied new grease says, the rattle comes back in less than 1000 miles. I'm not interested in re-greasing the pins every month, and want a long term solution. How often are you greasing the pins to keep the rattling away? And what grease are you using?

[RV Hecker]

rayobot,

How long a greasing lasts may vary I think. Some drivers are very hard on the brakes, pads don't last very long. Others are very easy on their pads, lasting much longer. It may also depend on where in the pads life, new & thick, or old & thin, the pins are greased. How much grease get on the pins after they are inserted and does one add grease to the boot? If the rubber boots are cracked and worn, grease can get away, hence, greasing pins won't last very long.
I use Sil-Guard brake lubricant.

RV

[6-Speed]

Never heard of Sil-Guard, but heard good things about Sil-Glyde grease. Ford recommends their Motorcraft Silicone and Dielectric grease for my Mustang's guide pins, so I might try that next time.

[Our Odyssey]

Guys whatever you use, make sure its specifically a synthetic brake grease (usually looks like vaseline, clearish stuff) because petroleum will just burn off so it won't do you any good. Any automotive parts place can get you something worthwhile.

[RV Hecker]

Yes, 6-speed,

It is Sil- glyde, I was mistaken. Not Sil-Guard.

Thanks,

RV

[bramberg]

For those that had the caliper rattle, did they still rattle under braking? I would think that if it was the caliper, the clamping force while braking would keep it from rattling. I ask because my front end rattles even under braking. I replaced the complete strut/spring/bearing with a pre assembled package; the rattle went away for a wile but now its back. Its an '02 with 200K on the clock. I replaced all the front bushings recently, that helped some. I do get a clunking when I rock the steering wheel back and forth. Seems to be comming from the rack. I did the outer tie-rods at 90k but haven't done the inners. Not sure what the problem is. Any ideas?

[bruce2]

How about get someone to rock the steering wheel back and forth while you are down there to check out the source of the clunk.

[bramberg]

I may have more than one issue. I have done what you suggested and there is something clunking in the rack. However, it is a different clunk than the one I hear while driving. Going over rough roads there is definitely something loose or worn out. I am going to disconnect the swaybar links and see if the noise goes away - as soon as the snow melts!