Thanks Honda for #$%^ 'in me again in the dead of winter! Ya, transmission problem

[POSGUY]

Almost EXACTLY 2 years ago, my 2nd tranny went out on my 01, now the 3rd may be gone.

A couple of weeks ago, I got a P0780, tranny wouldnt shift out of first. It was cold when this happened, so I began to warm the car up before driving and it has been fine. Wanted to wait till weather was reasonable to check and if nessesary, replace the solenoids.

Today, the car began jerking and then was stuck in 2nd (maybe 3rd) gear.

Made it home and pulled a P0730 as well as a P1751.

Do you all think Im wasting money by trying the solenoids or is this tranny toast? This tranny has 60k on it.

Another question, I looked under the hood and found what I thought was a disconnected harness down near the filler bolt.

I found 2 ends but they are not connected to anything, as a matter of fact, they have what I would call a terminator plugged into them, as if they are not supposed to be plugged into anything, maybe a test port or something?

[New Dad New Van]

Need photos of said connectors. The P0730 code would concern me though.

[POSGUY]

After a lot of searching, I see one other odyclub member mentioned the disconnected harness, it seems to be normal. There is a plug/terminator on each of those.

20130108_154319.jpg

The naming convention for all these solenoids is driving me crazy, add the slight differences from 2001 and 2002, im lost.

2001 Ody...

I originally had a P0780. A week or so later, a P1751 with a side of P0730. I am not using the car as it is stuck in 2nd or 3rd gear, and occasionally revs hunting for a gear.

I spoke to the tranny installer who put my last rebuilt in, he suggests the issue may be the Shift Sol A- Lock up solenoid (28200-p0z-003). He said the P0730 is because of the transmission not finding the right gear due to the solenoid.

I also read a post on a 98 that had similar problems, he rebuilt the tranny himself and still had the problem, turned out to be the above solenoid.

However, this post lists...
ECU Codes

P1751 Mechanical Problem in Hydraulic Control System of Shift Solenoid Valve B and
A/T Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valves A and B, or Problem in the Hydraulic Control System

The shift solenoid B, is that the one under the starter with the black connector and c is below that with the brown connector?

The A/T Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valves A and B, that is the linear solenoid with the pipes and screens, correct?

I'd rather start with the least expensive solenoid, thanks again.

[POSGUY]

OK,
here is where I am...

Pulled the TCC solenoid-Shift A assy, resistance on both was around 14-15 ohms. Then applied 12v, had a click. The screen was clean, only a little mettalic shavings around the edges.

Pulled the shift C, resistance also around 15 ohms, and a click was heard. Is the resistance for shift b and C supposed to be 12-15 ohms as we?

Tomorrow, ill try to remove the starter for shift B and then move on to the linear solenoids.

[HONACUTECH]

said connectors are service test ports from the factory and are of no use. what condition is the fluid in? and do you know where the countershaft speed sensor is? its the sensor right next to the fill port. lemme know....

[POSGUY]

Thanks hondacutech

Fluid was changed in spring, looks good.

Yes, ive seen that sensor to the right of fill port.

[davedrivesody]

The shift solenoid B, is that the one under the starter with the black connector and c is below that with the brown connector?

The A/T Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valves A and B, that is the linear solenoid with the pipes and screens, correct?

Yes, correct on both questions.

[POSGUY]

This afternoon I pulled the starter and checked shift solenoid B, 15 ohms and clicked.

I didnt remove the A/T Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid Valves A and B since all the other screens were virtually spotless and I didnt have a gasket on hand so I checked resistance, they were 5 ohms (Is that correct, please tell me no) and there was a crisp click with 12v.

So, it seems all solenoids check ok.

Is there a way to test the pressure switches, and

Honacutech, you were mentioning the speed sensor?

Thanks all

[POSGUY]

The guy who installed my last tranny faxed me a chart on which shift solenoids a, b and c should be "on" depending on what gear you are in. It appears they get 12v when required . I did a 2x drain/fill just to see if that made a difference.

Evertything is still the same but I now have a P0720 in addition to the p1751 and P0780.

Honacutech mentioned the speed sensor and I read a post with instructions on troubleshooting a P0720 from new dad new van, Ill look tomorrow. I know I probably need a new tranny, just want to rule out anything else.

Today it felt as if it kept engaging and disengaging first gear, we'll see.

[davedrivesody]

P0720 indicates a problem with the countershaft speed sensor. Test it for 400 to 600 ohms resistance.

The sensor is located on the top, front of the transmission just behind and to the right of the radiator hoses.The connector points to 10:00. It's attached by one bolt (8.7 ft-lb). If you change it, replace the O-ring too.

Good luck

Dave

[HONACUTECH]

sorry for the late reply weve been busy,ok do you know how to do a stall test? this will determine the slippage of the internal clutch packs if this test fails there is an internal pressure or clutch issue. About the speed sensor, if you remove this sensor, look through the hole and you will see a gear, if this gear looks like its hot(discolored (blue,yellow,black not silver) it means there is internal fluid issues (not enough fluid passing around) these are rough terms. the stall test, with your engine at normal operating temperature, firmly apply the emergency brake, firmly press the brake and place transmission in "D1", press the accelerator to the floor, !!!!DO NOT DO THIS FOR MORE THAN 5 SECONDS!!!!!!, without the computer it will be hard to tell exact rpms, but your best guess, let me know what the rpms are!!! if they are to high it will indicate internal slippage, this comes from either low fluid pressure or bad clutches.

[HONACUTECH]

POSGUY, one other thing I forgot to mention, reading your other posts it seems that you are installing 'rebuilt' second hand transmissions. I can advise but not go into detail, I would recommend buying a rebuilt transmission from Honda, there are updates to internal fluid passages and case clearances that keep these same failures from happening, these same updates are not present in rebuilt models from aftermarket repair shops. Most of these shops do not know of these update/countermeasures I understand the level of cost, I just rebuilt the engine in my civic, even with my discounts it still cost me over 650. its worth it to go Honda, please trust me, they even have the 12mo 12k miles warranty.

[sontakke]

RE: stall test
How many miles do you take off the life of the transmission by doing that test?

RE: 12/12 warranty on transmission:
Unless you get at least 36/36, it is not even worth considering a rebuild. Actually one should look for longer warranty than that given how often they die.

[joemooch]

My condolences...just had my 01 rebuilt @117K. Symptoms not as bad as yours. 1st warranty trans by Honda @66K. Putting in a Magnefine today...it's 81 degrees down here. Hoping to get another 5-6 years use. Maybe the DW-1 will help too. By then Ody will be worth $900. I rebuilt because the new Ody would run ~$35K, and the rebuild was ~$1500 including the rear main seal, knock sensor, and rear mount done by a retired Honda tech. GL
Joe

[POSGUY]

Dave.... 470 ohms

Honacutech... Ill take a look at the gear then decide if I want to try stall test.

Sorry, I will not give Honda any more money, not with this transmission nor another Honda auto. They replaced the original transmission at 70k under the warranty. That transmission Honda put in only lasted approx 50k. To my knowledge Honda is upwards of $4k for another.

The rebuilt 3rd transmission lasted 2 years, almost 60k miles and cost only $1700 installed. Im bringing the car to him Monday to take a look, he stated he will work with me if another replacement is required which I will probably do.

Other than fading clear coat the car is in decent shape, never a problem with the engine other than some oil consumption. I cant afford a new car and it would cost a heck of a lot more than $1700 to get a decent used car.

I keep you posted, thanks again everyone.