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I'm back with other problems, engine still shaking

14K views 141 replies 12 participants last post by  Buffalo4 
#1 ·
2002 Odyssey EX 420,000 miles (1st owner)

The car keep on needing the new parts after i fixed the cel codes. I recently replaced EGR VALVE, Spark Plugs, Bank 1 sensor 2, and clean the intake mainfold also. After that i drove the car for 4 days and later CEL came on so I took it to Oreilly, AutoZone, and Advance Auto Part Stores to get Cel scan. The day that cel came on after i took it to last stop which was Advance Auto Part Store, later when i went back to the car and crank it up the cel disappear but engine still was shaking. So finally i took it to the mechanic shop and he hook up his scanner (expensive kind) and his log into the 02 sensor data and he told me that Bank 1 sensor 1 is still running fine but Bank 1 sensor 2 is not running fine he said that and I told him that I put the new 02 sensor in Bank 1 sensor 2 and he said if i did then it might be catalytic converter is clog up. After this he try to pass Emission but he said car fail so he recommended me buying a new catalytic converter. I never had a code for catalytic converter i do not know why. One month ago i replaced Bank 1 sensor 2 , the connector of that wires was loose i mean wires was melted so i assume that catalytic converter wasn't function right when cel came on for bank 1 sensor 2.

Here are the codes for each stores that i took it to;

Oreilly- p0170, p0172, p0175

Autozone- p0172 she told me to replace bank 1 sensor 1

Advance Auto Part- p0705, p0172, p0175

Mechanic shop- P0172 and he recommend changing the catalytic converter


Bank 1 sensor 1 (never been replace)
Denso Bank 1 sensor 2 (been replaced one month ago)
catalytic converter (never been replace)

This car was driven by father and i do not know how long was he driving like this with the cel on.
 
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#2 ·
I might have to agree with the mechanic, if both sensors replaced and still shows rear o2 fault there is blowby soaking the o2, have you removed it yet to see if its wet or black? if so simply wipe it off and dry it good and put it back in. when I built my boosted caravan one of the issues I had was too much unburnt fuel going out the exhaust and soaking the o2 sensor, ran like crap till I cleaned off the o2, I ended up going with a highflow walker cat and that stopped the o2 from getting wet.
 
#3 ·
No, I haven't remove the rear 02 sensor the one in the cat. What should I do first? Do I replace the cat or just clean the rear sensor in the cat? What about front sensor do I go ahead replace them because it has 420k on that sensor ( front)?
 
#4 ·
Do I have other option beside buying the new cat? Because I'm scared throwing $400 for cat then later engine is still shaking. The reason I say this is because I don't know how long will Honda last.

Can I put straight pipe or something?
 
#6 · (Edited)
Remember that a code only indicates a symptom, it does not indicate the problem. Once cleared, it takes so many cycles/problems for a code to reappear even if the problem was not fixed. Find the problem before throwing parts at a solution in most cases.


Here are two references to P0172 that might be helpful:
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0172
http://engine-codes.com/p0172_honda.html

I second the post above, check the coils. That is the number 1 cause of engine shaking and the misfiring can cause the problems you are having and the codes you are getting.

Do you have a smartphone? For $20 you can buy a code reader that plugs into your obd2 port and communicates with your phone. I use the free app OBD Car Doctor for my iPhone. Torque is the app folks use most for android phones. On my iPhone I can look at live parameters of the O2 sensors and such. All this is to say the obd2 readers are not expensive anymore to see live data on specific parameters.
 
#7 ·
Do you have a smartphone? For $20 you can buy a code reader that plugs into your obd2 port and communicates with your phone. I use the free app OBD Car Doctor for my iPhone. Torque is the app folks use most for android phones. On my iPhone I can look at live parameters of the O2 sensors and such. All this is to say the obd2 readers are not expensive anymore to see live data on specific parameters.
Why bother? I have given up on this argument :-( Most people would much rather visit parts store to get the code than investing $20.
 
#8 ·
I do have smartphone and I do not have that app install on my phone.

Do you think maybe the spark plug it the problem on number 1 cyclinder? I say this because when I took out the old plugs on number 1 cyclinder it was hard to get it loose and that number 1 cyclinder plug was rusted. When I reinstalled new plug in number 1 cyclinder I tighten them down by first do the hand tight after this put the racket on there and while tightening them down with the racket, it keep on spinning it while other cyclinders was fine. So do I tighten them with racket until it stop spinning for number 1 cyclinder?
 
#10 ·
Screw the spark plug in as far as possible by hand. Then tighten it gently, or to 13 ft/lb if you have a torque wrench. If it continues to spin, the threads in the head may be stripped.

Dave
 
#11 ·
I did that by hand tight then put racket on there and tighten it but it continues to spin. If it stripped what can I do? On the rest of the cyclinders this is how I did it; hand tight then racket tighten them down to 1:00 to 3:00.

So cyclinder 1 is keep on spinning. Do I have to worry about it I mean if is not tight wouldn't it throw cel on before I took out the old spark plug from cyclinder 1 it was all the way down I mean more down than other rest of the cyclinders. My mechanic told me for cyclinder 1 is to tight it down with racket until I feel it stop spinning. Should I try this?




Is this the reason I'm having problems with cat or 02 sensor because of cyclinder 1 is not tight enough?
 
#12 ·
Can someone please help me

Should I tighten down the spark plug on cyclinder #1 with racket until it stop spinning? When I took out the old plug on cyclinder #1 it was super tight then other so this mean this plug was deeper than other plugs. Am I right?

My mechanic told me to tight them down with racket until I feel it stop with racket and he said it doesn't matter if this plug is deeper than other cyclinders.
 
#14 ·
Is been a day, so this is probably moot, but if the plug came out harder than the rest, it was probably seized in the head. how did the threads look on the old plug?? I bet your threads are sheared inside the head. Can you post a pic of the old plug?
 
#13 ·
All the plugs need to be tightened to a certain amount of foot/pounds with a ratchet that will give you this info. There is a washer on the plug that needs to seat. Otherwise you will get exhaust gasses flowing out the hole and end up with a melted spark plug coil. There's no way one should go deeper than the rest assuming none are cross threaded.
 
#15 ·
If the old #1 plug was "super tight", it means the steel plug threads had bonded to the aluminum head threads. This happens when a plug is left in service for a long time, or if anti-seize compound was not used when the plug was installed. It's possible the head threads were damaged by removing the plug.

So your present situation is that #1 plug spins forever without tightening? This almost certainly means the head threads are stripped. You should not drive the van like this. Other damage will result, as noted above by OdyinNH.

Explain to your mechanic that plug #1 spins forever. Then put the van in his hands. It needs the skill of a professional to fix it.

Dave
 
#16 ·
My mechanic came to my house and fix the #1 cyclinder by installing a non foul spark plug kit and on top of that he installed the coil ( engine look funny because coil is out and not all the way into the cyclinder lol). He said this is a fix unless I want to take out the rear whole cyclinder and get it done at the machine shop. But my engine still shake I think maybe is because I need to replace upstream 02 sensor (front P0172). This happens after I clean the intake manifold, throttle body , and Clean EGR. I looked at the details of what p0172 mean and it told me to check these; ignition coil, front faulty 02 sensor, faulty maf sensor, incorrectly fuel pressure, faulty fuel injector , exhaust gas leak.

I did checked ignitions coil by disconnecting wire and nothing happened

I never replace front sensor

I know this car doesn't have maf sensor but only map sensor and I clean that with the mass air flow sensor cleaner

I do not know about other three because I don't know how to check them

P0172 mean bank 1 running rich

So should I change the front 02 sensor upstream??? I already changed the O2 sensor on the downstream.
 
#19 ·
The O2 sensor code is just a symptom. You need to fix the rich fuel mixture, then the code will go away.

Some causes are a bad MAF sensor or bad EGR valve.

Dave
 
#22 ·
It is possible that you put the intake manifold gasket on wrong. If you did, some ports get blocked and the engine will not run well. It happens to quite a few of people that remove it to clean the ports.
What were your symptoms before you did the EGR, etc.?
Did it get worse after you did the port and EGR cleaning?
Was the spark plug that was tight look oil fouled or ?
Yes, that spark plug hole should be fixed as 'sontakke' suggested if you want to keep the Ody.
I believe that it can be done without removing the head, but I am not sure.
Buffalo4
 
#31 ·
You had stripped threads on cylinder head. I do not see how putting the anti-fouler was going to fix that problem. So in all likelihood, you still have #1 leaking the compression. While the engine is running, if you put your hand over that area, you should be able to feel/hear the leaking compression.
 
#33 ·
Anybody else to comment upon loose spark plug and engine running rich? Loose spark plug is going to give you P030x and P1399 codes first for the misfire.

I suppose if the cylinder has no compression, then spark could not ignite the mixture (true??) and all the fuel is getting dumped raw on the O2 sensor which will read too rich. May be that is what is happening but I am surprised that there is no misfire code.

The condition under which computers reports rich conditions are quite rare. Too much fuel or/and too little air is needed and it is not easy to create those conditions only on one bank.
 
#34 ·
Anybody else to comment upon loose spark plug and engine running rich? Loose spark plug is going to give you P030x and P1399 codes first for the misfire.

I suppose if the cylinder has no compression, then spark could not ignite the mixture (true??) and all the fuel is getting dumped raw on the O2 sensor which will read too rich. May be that is what is happening but I am surprised that there is no misfire code.

The condition under which computers reports rich conditions are quite rare. Too much fuel or/and too little air is needed and it is not easy to create those conditions only on one bank.
 
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