Need advice - installed rack pinion (gear box) leak at feed line
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Thread: Need advice - installed rack pinion (gear box) leak at feed line

  1. #1
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    Need advice - installed rack pinion (gear box) leak at feed line

    Just spent weekend installing rack and pinion on the 2001 Odyssey. It wasn't easy but I did it except for one big hitch.
    The rebuilt gearbox has crossed threads where the feed line flare nut screws in. I carefully advanced the nut into the valve body as far as I could without rounding the bolt (nut). But there were plenty of thread left. Sure enough it leaked when I added ps fluid and started the car.

    I tried to contact the seller today get his advice or an idea of what to do. I do not want to remove that gear box !! I talked to his receptionist and said he would call and bla bla never heard from him. Emailed him and nothing.

    So with renewed determination this evening after work I backed the nut out and tried again every which way to get it to thread in. After the flare wrenches were staring to round the bolt I used gripping pliers and continued to slowly screw it in (mistake?) I just wanted it to work. Still a lot of threads showing and it still leaks see photo and video.

    What can I do?

    Notice the fluid is coming out of the center hole of the nut (not the threads) where the line goes into the hole of the nut. Am I correct that tightening down the nut seals this up?
    https://youtu.be/a5kg8w_kVuQ
    IMG_3754.jpg

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  3. #2
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    Ouch, that's not cool. You can see it's off and I doubt it will bottom out the tube like that. I would try something to chase the threads on both sides. A die for the nut and possibly a grade 8 bolt with the center ground out some for the rack side. You could try and get a new flare nut of the same size to see if it will thread in ok using a socket but to me that looks painful to fix in that space. Keep us posted.
    Mike
    2000 Odyssey LX
    Trans at 82k -- Tru-cool trans cooler
    DIY Timing Belt at 104k
    Hidden Hitch & Airlift 1000's

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    I was researching today about possibilities like chasing the threads. I have never done that before. I was trying to find the specs on the flare nut and rack threads online. The Service Manual lists it as 14mm 1.5

    OdyinNH when you say "bottom out the tube" are you saying that as the nut tightens, the tube gets sealed? Perhaps a stupid question but you know I didn't really think about how a flare nut worked before this.

    Since I need to be at work this week I may also call around to some repair shops to see if they can do something for me.

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  6. #4
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    Any suggestions about where to look first for matching flare nut? Thanks!

  7. #5
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    SpaceOdyssey, I just replaced this entire power steering high pressure line on my wife's 2002 EX, and the only way to get another flare nut is to buy the entire line. I will say from personal experience that an aftermarket product did not work for me...this is one of those cases where an OEM Honda part is the only way to go.

    OF
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    OH, yea today I especially appreciate your view on OEM parts. I installed the high pressure line a year or so ago and don't recall whether it was or wasn't. Do they even sell OEM gearboxes for these Odysseys?

    And i I want the flare nut just to see if it turn in more easily and maybe help straighten out the threads. But I guess I could just use any bolt that is 14 X 1.5?

  9. #7
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    Tough spot, man.

    Yeah, the flare on the tube has to sit tight and square with the corresponding boss on the rack. The fluid is under high pressure so the flare has to seat perfectly or it will leak.

    Chasing the threads might work if there's enough room to work down there. The challenge would be to align with the original threads. Even perfect threads that are not perpendicular to the rack body won't do the job.

    If it were me, I would pursue a replacement rack one way or the other. Redoing your hard work would be downright disheartening, but that fitting will never seal with those messed up threads. I can't see the worn flare nut, but it (i.e. the line) may need to be replaced too.

    Dave
    2002 Odyssey EX Fern (Granite) Green
    Honda hood protector, stainless steel flex brake lines, Honda block heater, AC condenser screen, Zymol wax
    141,000 miles/227,000 kilometres; original transmission; Amsoil MV ATF since 79,000 miles/127,000 kilometres; Magnefine aux ATF filter; Honda aux ATF cooler; 18 drain and fills

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    OdyinNH, I looked up grade 8 bolts (learning new stuff everyday). Metric comes in grade8.8. What do you mean by "bolt with center ground out some"? And why grade 8?

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    davedrivesody - thanks for the advice - I'm thinking that you are right about replacing the rack and avoiding ongoing problems. Because I just did the replacement I figure I can do it again twice as fast this time. And it may be less time than what I might spend on a fruitless messy fix.

  12. #10
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    Multiple answers for you, how a flare fitting works is the tube has a flared end that sits over a coned piece. The nut pushes the tube against the cone to form a metal to metal seal. If the threads are messed up you won't get the tight fitment. The tube should not be able to be spun when tight. This link shows a different flare fitting but is a good visual for the same concept. http://cdn.balkanplumbing.com/wp-con...-fitting-1.jpg

    Grade 8.8 is good, I forgot about this being metric. You need the hardened bolt to chase the softer metal. The ground out part is so you can chase all the threads seeing the coned part in the rack will only allow the bolt to go in so far.

    Assuming M14 X 1.5 is the right size you can get them. The issue is you need a harder metal than brass to chase it.
    http://www.autozone.com/fittings-and...?checkfit=true

    The die is the easy part, the tap is harder to deal with. Can you tell which side is messed up? Often times the nut on the tube is softer metal so it gets screwed up. With any luck your rack is ok. You may need a mirror to be able to see the threads. You should always hand tighten these until it is bottoming out. That may take some wiggling of the pipe while turning the nut.
    Drill America DWT Series Qualtech Carbon Steel Hex Threading Die, M14 x 1.5 Size (Pack of 1): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

    Not sure if this is needed but here is a video on repairing threads.
    Mike
    2000 Odyssey LX
    Trans at 82k -- Tru-cool trans cooler
    DIY Timing Belt at 104k
    Hidden Hitch & Airlift 1000's

  13. #11
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    One final thought, if any of the metal shavings get into the p/s fluid your seals will be gone in short order so make sure the rack side is totally clean. You may be able to get by with just a new hose. As you can see from the damage created by your pliers, the nut metal is soft.

    There's some good tips in this post, mainly number 8.
    http://www.techimo.com/forum/general...-fittings.html
    Last edited by OdyinNH; 05-24-2016 at 08:06 PM.
    Mike
    2000 Odyssey LX
    Trans at 82k -- Tru-cool trans cooler
    DIY Timing Belt at 104k
    Hidden Hitch & Airlift 1000's

  14. #12
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    Update One Month Later....


    Thanks OdyinNH and everyone else who kindly responded to my sad dilemma.

    I ended up ordering a different remanufactured A1-Cardone rack from a different vendor (yes, not OEM Honda part - I'm so cheap). When it arrived the first thing I did was check the threads on the rack where the feed line connects - WELL I THOUGHT I WAS LOSING MY MIND - the threaded opening was way too large. The 2nd vendor sent me the wrong rack - the package had the correct part number but....my luck!


    Ha!

    So what I did - I removed the first rack I installed. Reinstalled my OLD rack. The feed line threaded right into the old rack no problem. Then I returned both racks for full refunds.


    Meanwhile I did other work on the front, struts, brakes, control arms...


    I'm just now feeling a little motivation to re-attack the rack.

    I considered overhauling my existing rack with the $30 kit - but I'm not sure about removing and then installing the cylinder end seal without all those "special Honda tools" and a press. Has anyone done this by chance without the tools? Other than that part it looks easy.


    A new OEM rack runs about $500 and that seems to be without the bellows and inner tie rods.


    RACK, POWER STEERING - 2001 HONDA ODYSSEY (53601S0XA01)


    Here is a picture but I assume it comes assembled. Or does it?
    RACK, POWER STEERING - 2001 HONDA ODYSSEY 53601S0XA01.png

  15. #13
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    Here's a better diagram of the PS rack. P.S. GEAR BOX for 2001 Honda ODYSSEY

    The rack seems to include the inner tie rod ends but not the bellows.

    Dave
    2002 Odyssey EX Fern (Granite) Green
    Honda hood protector, stainless steel flex brake lines, Honda block heater, AC condenser screen, Zymol wax
    141,000 miles/227,000 kilometres; original transmission; Amsoil MV ATF since 79,000 miles/127,000 kilometres; Magnefine aux ATF filter; Honda aux ATF cooler; 18 drain and fills

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