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Transmission issue I have not seen covered previously......

4K views 20 replies 7 participants last post by  davedrivesody 
#1 ·
Hello all,
I am a new member and first post. We own a 2001 odyessy with 210,000 on the clock. We purchased it a few yrs. ago with about
170,000 at that time.
We have never experienced any trans issues what so ever in this time period until a few weeks ago, while freeway driving at speed the tcs and one other dash light were noticed to be on, then about 10 minutes later the trans just stopped working ,as in, one major slip and that was it, nothing in any gear or reverse.
Car was towed and I started the research, and followed all of the recommended fixes on this very informative site as well as some videos online.
I did all of the solenoid voltage checks, and made sure all 6 solenoids are clean and operational .Upon inspection the screens did not have any friction material whatsoever clogging them,and there was the only usual amount on the drain plug. The fluid was topped off, but was fairly dark and had a somewhat burned smell, and was drained as well as a full cleaning of the inline filter behind the front bumper.
Added 4 1/2 quarts of new honda atf and I am assuming the ecu was reset when i had removed the battery to do the work.

This is what is happening now... No dash fault lights except ck motor which has been on for a year or so and no issues related to it that I know of.
Car goes into reverse one time, after starting ignition but not after that, and will do nothing on the same start after that. all other gears do not engege at all, not even the slightest amount.

I am hoping I have missed something and you great people have an idea, or is the thing just done/toast.

Thanks very much for any input!
 
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#2 ·
Did you read the codes stored in the computer after the transmission failure occurred? If the check engine light was already on, any new codes would just be added to the list.

The TCS light coming on indicates that the computer detected something amiss.

Dave
 
#3 ·
Dave, thank you for the reply....unfortunately I did not check the codes , as I do not own the tool to do so ,probably should pick one of those up at this point in time and technology .

If I did check them at this point... would I still get the codes? the check on engine light is still on.

I was also wondering if there were any fuses or other electrical issue related to this?
 
#6 ·
If I did check them at this point... would I still get the codes? the check on engine light is still on.

I was also wondering if there were any fuses or other electrical issue related to this?
Yes, you can still get the codes. They are kept in the computer until someone clears them with a code reader.

BTW, great idea to get a code reader of your own. It will pay for itself the first time you use it.

It's probably not an electrical problem - more likely mechanical or hydraulic.

Dave
 
#4 ·
odyssey service manual page 14-9 showed the causes of (engine runs, but vehicle does not move in any direction)
1-low atf level.
2-shift cable broken or out of adjustment.
3-shift cable worn.
4-ATF pump worn or binding.
5-regulator valve stuck or spring worn.
6-ATF strainer clogged.
7-Mainshaft worn or damaged.
8-final gears worn or damaged.
9-transmission to engine assembly error.
10-Axle disengaged.
 
#5 ·
Sadly you've done all you can externally. Everything else to be done will be inside the trans.

The stuff happening inside the trans when you shift the column shifter is mechanical. Some people imagine the column shifter is like a sensor, and then there are solenoids firing inside the trans to make things happen... not in an Ody of this gen. If you get nothing, AND the cable isn't snapped... that's not good news.



This gold bit is what the cable is attached to. The black part that looks like a shepherd's hook is the valve that goes inside the main valve body and directs trans fluid to where it needs to go to make things happen.

So if shifting gears gives you nothing... 's not good *shake head*
 
#9 ·
Lol. Well, very possible (or certain) that I missed the bigger picture on that one! They may "rent" one for free, though. I've done that for many other tools that I don't need very often. I've never asked about scan tool renting, though.
 
#10 ·
I saw the scan tool rental on their chart at autozone a while back. Though I never rented it, I sometimes mention it as well, in case some places do not read it for free. In cali, for example, I heard they are not supposed to anymore (since 5 yrs back) though aamco does it. Back in midwest almost every autoparts store scanned it. Pepboys for example, says drop off the car even for that and it only takes 2 mins to hook up and read.
 
#11 ·
All that said, I think it's probably a long shot that any code stored in the PCM triggering the MIL will be responsible for the transmission not doing anything when shifting in and out of gear. If anyone knows that trans it's bbarbulo and I'd take his word on it. I would, however, sure check those codes before I remove the transmission for rebuilding just in case. It still may have some clues.
 
#13 ·

Thanks for the suggestions and ideas. As for these below

odyssey service manual page 14-9 showed the causes of (engine runs, but vehicle does not move in any direction)
1-low atf level.
2-shift cable broken or out of adjustment.
3-shift cable worn.
4-ATF pump worn or binding.
5-regulator valve stuck or spring worn.
6-ATF strainer clogged.
7-Mainshaft worn or damaged.
8-final gears worn or damaged.
9-transmission to engine assembly error.
10-Axle disengaged.


For (#2 and 3 above) akramjef1 also from bbarbulo suggestions

I checked the cable under the steering column cover and it all looks and works as it should I believe . I removed the lower cable/lever cover under the trans, and had the wife get in the car and go through the gears while I watched the cable/lever. The cable mooved the lever into park, r, and all gears, and made a clicking sound while going to each gear, which I assume it is supposed to do. So the cable is not broken and does not aooear to be sloppy, although I do not know if an adjustment would make a difference.



(#4and 5 above)
I do not know where these two parts are located or if they are inside the transmission?or related to my symptoms?


As far as John Clark and davedrivesod's suggestions , I have not checked the codes but plan to do that shortly.

I will keep posting and thanks again all.
 
#14 ·
Sorry friend, 1,2,3 are all the external checks you can make. If you need further conviction, you can hook up a pressure gauge and see that you have no pressure. But fact is, the clicking noises are you hear are that gold part (you can see the clicky bits in the photo I posted) moving. So, that's that. 4 and on are internal to the trans. Well, not the last one... If an axle is broken you would see the trans output spinning.
 
#15 ·
Thanks bbarbulo,

So what part of the internals of the trans would you think are the most at fault ,and have you rebuilt this gen ody trans?

I may be crazy but I am thinking of attempting to do a rebuild ,and have never done a trans before.
There are a few very detailed 2 hour long how- to videos on the web, but the actual cost of the rebuild materials/parts is not mentioned.
What is the typical cost of the parts and specialty tools, and how long does it actually take ,and level of difficulty?

thanks
 
#16 · (Edited)
EDIT: to sum up - WOULD DO AGAIN!! :nice: I adore these cars. Hondas in general. I would absolutely hands down rebuild another and another. Working on a german car right now and it sickens me. Doesn't matter, I'd prob do that again too - but the Honda YES!! :nice: [/edit]

Yeah I did my 4 speed B7TA (2000 Ody) back in November roughly. Never done a trans before either. I just dove into it. Only thing people screw up royally is not having an input shaft holder. Aside from that, you have the manual obviously, and that's the only reference I used.

I had all kinds of time, I didn't need the car running. I bought it broken. So I pulled the tranny, inspected everything, ordered ONLY what I needed, and that was that. I was buttoned up with upgrades for a little over $550? - ish?? I outlined in several posts some of my upgrades and pricing and everything. There are good deals to be had, but I chose to go with OEM frictions and steels. But really Raybestos GPX (?) are prob quite good too. I don't know who makes the gearspeed frictions, but they're prob ok too for the balance of the service life of the vehicle. Or if not... so another 160K miles maybe you rebuild the trans again... that would still be a helluva deal. Master Gearspeed Overhaul Kit: 1999-2001 Honda Odyssey (B7TA/B7YA) I had seriously contemplated this... but again, I ended up going OEM from Majestic Honda.

The input holder is pricey. Dad made it for me, I had to modify it a bit from the intended design, but it was nothing too drastic.

Removing the trans from the car itself is not an insignificant part of the job. The trans itself is doable... small parts washer or a bucket and a few strainers from the dollar store, some chip brushes (don't use the plastic brushes, use actual chip brushes), totally doable. Trans removal, if at all possible, remove the exhaust. It will make the job a breeze. I didn't want to remove the exhaust, the rusted cat converter nuts were essentially lumps of rust. no way I was touching that... I can deal with it, just didn't feel like it at the time. So I paid the price in heavy lifting instead. I removed the trans myself... I mean, all by myself squeezed into the dr side wheelwell, birthing a whale calf from an unwilling shrimp. lol

Anyways, if you're interested I did a photo dump in this album.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/151166614@N04/60UMj5

Maybe one day I'll put together a writeup as best as I can.

I'll do my best to assist, but really the job is in your hands once you start. As for how long... like I said, I wasn't concerned about time. I did my inspection, waited a week or two for parts... did cleaning, assembly. I don't know, I can look at the date stamps on the photos in my phone, but I wanna say 3 weeks total.
 
#17 ·
oh yeah, you asked what part of the trans is 'most' at fault.

i think in your case, you have a complete fluid blockage of the filter or the mesh strainers in the valve body (there are two strainers in addition to the filter). I suspect your filter is so plugged that it's shredded from pressure. And some of that filter media has prob made it's way to the strainers. I would also really carefully check your pump clearances to ensure you get adequate pressure once you reassemble. thousands of an inch make the difference between a strong pump and one that is barely adequate.

last but not least, and this is more for failures that are really spotty and intermittent - the valve bodies. I can't say enough about this kit. I don't know how the car shifted before, but man - this kit... the car was incredible!!! Flawless shifting.

HONDA ACURA B7XA BDGA B7YA B7TA M7ZA B7ZA TRANSMISSION VALVE BODY UPGRADE KIT WITH .388 CPC VALVES FITS 96-02 - The American Powertrain Warehouse

And I went with a Sonnax O-ring end cap kit, just to prevent any chance of pressure loss to leakage out from the valve body. Not critical, but the price was nice from rockauto and I couldn't resist a little more 'upgrade'.

Also, torque converter replacement is a must. I don't know why, but that's what everyone and all literature says. So I did it. In my case, given random broken parts inside the trans that were NOT from the trans, I expect it was from the TC.
 
#18 ·
OK,
So , I have the trouble codes from the van, and they do not look like the codes I have seen posted by others on this site. I will list them below, and thanks Bbarulo for your responses to this post ,they have been very helpful.

Here is what the obd2 showed...

0 DTC
24-02
32-01
31-02
54-01
61-01
81-01

All of them ,except the first one (0 DTC) also had a abs indicator on as well as the code.

I do not know what to make of it, as I have not seen these codes listed anywhere in my searches.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, even if the codes do not relate to my transmission problems.

Thanks
 
#19 ·
Honda Check Engine Light (CEL) / ECU Codes by ZealAutowerks

I don't know if these help you at all.

Is there any way you can get your hands on even a $40 code reader? Harbor Freight usually has them cheap, and they do the job. Those tools, while leaving a lot to be desired, will at least read the correct P codes. This almost sounds like the tool is not actually communicating to the ECU but rather grounding the OBD connector pins and then counting the pulses of the check engine light. But the thing is, some of those aren't even codes... like 24 and 32 I guess aren't actual codes, so that puts the whole list at question.

I don't want to spend too much time chasing these down, I flipped through the service manual and I don't see those as being helpful.

No prob, I'm happy to help someone willing to do the work.
 
#21 ·
These look like ABS DTC's. They could explain the TCS light being on.

Code 61 is low battery voltage. This computerized van needs a strong battery to function correctly. Have the battery checked.

That said, I don't see how a bad battery could make your van not move in any direction. However, I would try anything before plunging into a transmission rebuild.

Dave
 
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