Another H22 1st gen odyssey questions and advises from ody pro
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Thread: Another H22 1st gen odyssey questions and advises from ody pro

  1. #1
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    Another H22 1st gen odyssey questions and advises from ody pro

    Hey guys,

    Got my 96 odyssey last year due to a growing family, I'm always a Honda freak guy, whatever or whoever talk to me about cars, all I can say is just about Honda. LOL.

    Anyway long story short, its been a great van for the last year, but sadly I really feel the ody so under power when it goes up on the hill or even cruising and taking off ( I live in Vancouver, BC, lots of uphill around where I live). Thats why I picked up a H22A4 engine for darn cheap ($150 including manual tranny and all the harnesses), so basically I can just sell the tranny and make all my money back but free engine.

    I've been searching enough for doing this swap, about mounts, hoses, axles, harnesses yada yada yada... I got all the answer for it since 1st gen ody is just like a 94-97 accord with a different body, now the only thing that stuck me up from doing the swap is what ECU that I need to run to stay automatic (I have to stay automatic because the wife is the one that drive the van most of the time).

    I know that F22B6 auto tranny will bolt right up into H22A4 block, but which ECU that I need to run is my big concern up to now, as far as I know I need a 96 H22A1 automatic prelude is the go, but finding this ECU will be so tough since they only make it in 1 year only, and I cant use 97-01 prelude ECU since it got a build in Immobilizer in ECU. And also I know that since my van is 96 so the Transmission control module is built in the ECU, unlike the OBD1 car that got a seperate TCU.

    After a long search I found another way is to use a OBD1 JDM P0F ECU and TCU out of a OBD1 JDM H22A Accord, and convert my van into OBD1 (Either I will have to make my own conversion harnesses or de-pin and re-pin the ECU and TCU connector and adapt it to OBD1) I really have no problem with it, I got all the wiring diagram as well as I'm confident doing it.

    Well, since P0F ECU and TCU is out of an accord, then i will have to convert my 96 Ody ECU plug into OBD1 Accord ECU plug.

    Now, my real question is, have anybody done this way before? Is the JDM P0F ECU and TCU will plug and play my set up?

    Or is there any other way of doing it? I really dont want to use a Chip ECU even though I got lots of P28 ECU lying around in my house ( did lots couple B-series swap into civic, LOL), because as far as I know if I use a chip ECU then i wont be able to change my shift point.

    How did you guys do your H22A swap into your odyssey? which ECU that you guys running on?

    Thanks in advance for all the advises that will come.

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  3. #2
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    The Great H22 Swap with Automatic Transmission Conundrum

    Hey trequartista_10 - you have arrived at what I call "The Great H22 Swap with Automatic Transmission Conundrum". Many have reached the point you have(including me), but few have actually made it work(I am not one of those few). But I did a lot of research and I will share what I've learned and my opinions with you.

    I think you have 3 or 4 options:

    Option #1 - Since Japanese OBD1 Preludes were available with an H22 and automatic transmission combination, you can use the ECU + TCU from one of those cars. The ECU you want will have a part # of either 37820-P13-900, 37820-P13-901, 37820-P13-N50, 37820-P13-N51, or 37820-P13-J50. The TCU you want is part # 28100-P19-003. You would need to make your own OBD2a to OBD1 conversion harness. You would have to compare the pinouts for your Odyssey transmission to the pinouts for the Prelude automatic transmission. The JDM Prelude automatic transmission pinouts would be hard to get and even harder to read, but I think you would be safe using the pinouts from a 1994 United States Prelude Helms manual. The 1994 US Prelude was available with an H23 engine and automatic transmission, and I think the TCU pinouts from that transmission would match the JDM P19 TCU pinouts(but I am not absolutely positive). If the P19 TCU can transmit and receive the signals your Odyssey transmission needs to function, then that would be the easiest and cheapest way to go. If the Odyssey transmission is not compatible with the P19 TCU, then you would need to get a 1994 or 1995 Accord automatic transmission, or one from a US H23 Prelude or JDM Prelude.

    Option #2 Use a 1996 JDM Prelude stick shift H22 ECU part #37820-P5M-N01 and "stand alone" automatic transmission controller like the TCM-2000 from Powertrain Control Solutions

    link for JDM PM5 ECU on eBay today (4-1-13): H22 P13 P5M ECU OBD2 No Immobilizer RARE Honda Prelude H22A vtec 96 97 98 99 00 | eBay

    link for Powertrain Control Solutions TCM-2000: Powertrain Control Solutions - TCM-2000
    Powertrain Control Solutions does not currently have a prefabricated harness for Honda transmissions, you would have to purchase their "universal" harness and adapt it to your transmission wiring and figure out the programming using their software.

    Option #3 use an OBD1 P13 stick shift ECU and "stand alone" automatic transmission controller like the TCM-2000 from Powertrain Control Solutions. You would need to use an OBD2a to OBD1 conversion harness for engine management and make a harness to work with the TCM2000

    Option #4 - same as option #3 but use a chipped P28 ECU instead of the P13

    That's about all I have right now. There may be other options out there - I'd love for someone else to chime in with an alternate idea.

    Good luck !

  4. #3
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    THANKS Tallra1, thats the advice that I kind of wanted so we can talk more and discuss about it instead of an answer that just " yes, thats how you do it" but ended up it doesnt work properly, because the guy doesnt know what he was talking about.

    First of all, I've been considering a lot about this swap and I'm telling you I got 95,96 odyssey, 95 accord, 92-01 prelude, Power train and transmission control module wiring diagram printed out in here.
    Day by day I tried to compare them all, and it seems that the best way to do it is convert my 96 Odyssey ECU wiring harnesses into an OBD1 95 accord ECU wiring harnesses. And yes its really complicated, I am changing a OBD2 car into a different chassis OBD1 ECU harnesses.
    In this case I will no need to worry about making my own OBD2-OBD1 jumper harnesses for odyssey.
    This is the thing that I will do first before I jump on pulling the whole engine and tranny out, swap the H22A in, and it doesnt run right.

    Second, since you pointed out about using P13 JDM prelude automatic ECU, have you ever consider and heard about people using JDM P0F ECU and P0N TCU out of a JDM/EDM accord SiR.
    This is one of the ECU and TCU combination that accord guys use on their automatic H22A swap, better yet its way cheaper than buying JDM P13 and P19 ECM and TCU combination.
    I found a JDM P0F and JDM P0N TCU for $100, its way cheaper than buying a JDM P13 auto ECU.

    Third, since you brought up using a chipped ECU, now I really need to know, I've been told by someone that if you are using a chipped ECU on automatic car, then you wont be able change your shift point, to tell honestly I never get what he meant, nor I care about it since running a Chipped ECU on a family car is really a NONO for me, I'm just trying to get more power for my van so it doesnt suck ball when it goes up on the hill.

    Now go back to my first option which is convert the ECM wiring harnesses into an accord, I havent got a real answer yet if JDM P0F and P0N ECU and TCU is plug and play, but most of the people and forum that I read they said yes, they plug and play. just 2 wires that need to be swapped over thats for the shift lock control.

    My real best bet is go with my first option, now what I'm thinking is what a JDM RA1 came with in Japan? do they got F22 or H22?

    Any other suggestion,

    Thanks a lot for the information and lets discuss it here, i might be able to help you out and you might be able to help me out, thats what I like.

    Excuse my language if I'm not in a good manner, thats just because I'm not a native english speaking LOL.

    Thanks and will wait for your reply

  5. #4
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    Hey trequartista_10 - nice response - intelligent and well thought out. I think the JDM POF with matching TCU might be a good way to go. My only reservation with that route is being able to determine the pinouts for the ECU and TCU. The reason I'm leaning toward the JDM P13 ECU & P19 TCU is that I think the information for pinouts can be found in a 1994 Prelude Helms factory service manual for US cars.

    I think it would be easier to make your own OBD2a to OBD1 ECU/TCU conversion harness than to swap the engine and chassis wiring harness from OBD2a to OBD1. A lot of the chassis harness wires that pass through the firewall go to the dash harness as well as the ECU/TCU. You have an OBD2 engine and engine harness and an OBD2 chassis harness. I think it would be much harder to change all that wiring to OBD1 than it would be to make a conversion harness for the ECU/TCU.

    That's about all I have for tonight.

    Best regards,
    tallra1

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallra1 View Post
    Hey trequartista_10 - nice response - intelligent and well thought out. I think the JDM POF with matching TCU might be a good way to go. My only reservation with that route is being able to determine the pinouts for the ECU and TCU. The reason I'm leaning toward the JDM P13 ECU & P19 TCU is that I think the information for pinouts can be found in a 1994 Prelude Helms factory service manual for US cars.


    I think it would be easier to make your own OBD2a to OBD1 ECU/TCU conversion harness than to swap the engine and chassis wiring harness from OBD2a to OBD1. A lot of the chassis harness wires that pass through the firewall go to the dash harness as well as the ECU/TCU. You have an OBD2 engine and engine harness and an OBD2 chassis harness. I think it would be much harder to change all that wiring to OBD1 than it would be to make a conversion harness for the ECU/TCU.


    That's about all I have for tonight.


    Best regards,
    tallra1

    Now that you brought up about the pin out of the ECU, thats the thing that I wasnt sure yet, thats why I havent really start rebuilding my engine and buying P0F ECU, because I need to know if P0F ECU and P0N TCU are plug and play in 95 accord, if yes, it would be great.


    I've been waiting for some more responses on the CB7 tuner.com.


    I've been considering about making my own OBD2-1 conversion harnesses, but what I was thinking is, just swap over the ECU pins out, then use my odyssey wiring harnesses, and add some wires up for the VTEC, IAB, etc that I needed, really havent think too much about it yet, but I'll figure out.


    Are you running H22 in your RA1 right now? Which tranny that you use? whats the problem you are having?

  7. #6
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    Hey T-10 - I have never been able to successfully de-pin a Honda ECU connector. The only way I have been able to get a wire out of a Honda ECU connector is to cut the connector apart with a razor blade. I tried paper clips and tiny screwdrivers, but the design of the Honda terminal locks it into the connector shell like a fish hook locks into a fish. If you have figured a way to get a Honda ECU connector "de-pinned" without destroying the connector shell, please share it with me.

    I am not running an H22 in my 1997 Odyssey, but I would like to some day. I have a early JDM H22A engine and matching MP1A automatic transmission with P13 ECU and P19 TCU that I bought years ago to go in a 1996 Accord, but a job change and growing family kept that project from being a go. I did do a lot of research and I have figured out the pinouts to make my own OBD2a to OBD1 conversion harness to put the H22a into the 1996 Accord. I have not compared the 1996 Accord pinouts to the 1997 Odyssey pinouts to determine what wiring changes would need to be made for the conversion harness. Maybe I can do that this weekend.

    Good luck!

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallra1 View Post
    Hey T-10 - I have never been able to successfully de-pin a Honda ECU connector. The only way I have been able to get a wire out of a Honda ECU connector is to cut the connector apart with a razor blade. I tried paper clips and tiny screwdrivers, but the design of the Honda terminal locks it into the connector shell like a fish hook locks into a fish. If you have figured a way to get a Honda ECU connector "de-pinned" without destroying the connector shell, please share it with me.

    I am not running an H22 in my 1997 Odyssey, but I would like to some day. I have a early JDM H22A engine and matching MP1A automatic transmission with P13 ECU and P19 TCU that I bought years ago to go in a 1996 Accord, but a job change and growing family kept that project from being a go. I did do a lot of research and I have figured out the pinouts to make my own OBD2a to OBD1 conversion harness to put the H22a into the 1996 Accord. I have not compared the 1996 Accord pinouts to the 1997 Odyssey pinouts to determine what wiring changes would need to be made for the conversion harness. Maybe I can do that this weekend.

    Good luck!
    You know those screwdriver that people use for electrical stuff, use those to de-pin the pinout, but you have to release the lock off the connector first though, different connector got different locks.

    MP1A tranny is the one that got LSD in it right? sell it to me then, I'm looking for one of that.

    I dont know about 96 accord and 97 odyssey pinout, but I believe they are totally different, because i compare the 95 ody and 95 accord, they are tottally different.

    For the swap, I might gonna make my own OBD2 ody-OBD1 accord conversion harnesses, and try it out first, then it everything went well, then I will de-pin and re-pin my ecu, by doing this, if something is not going well, i can just take the conversion out and reconnect the connector to my ECU.

    I just got some confirmation that JDM P0F and P0N ECU TCU combination is plug and play into 95 accord which is a good news, swapping the a6 and a11 pinout is depending on which engine harnesses that you gonna use on the H22, if you use accord's then you dont need to but if you use prelude's then you have to swap them over, or vise versa I just cant remember 100% on it right now.

    Well, my next step if going to get OBD1 accord ECU and TCU, wish someone can borrow me one at this moment lol, and also make my conversion harneeses or just buy from some one and modify it.

    I just compare every pin out of the ody and accord ECU and TCU today.

    Will give more update tomorrow.

    Thanks

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