Easy Transmission FIX - Pressure Switches
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Thread: Easy Transmission FIX - Pressure Switches

  1. #1
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    Easy Transmission FIX - Pressure Switches

    I got this info from the Acura TL forum and it also applies to our van's transmission as well - they are the exact same transmissions.
    For those of you who may be experiencing transmission issues such as delayed shifts, slow shifts, harsh downshifts, or anything of the sort, you may want to try this simple fix.
    It is somewhat common knowledge among Honda transmission experts that the most common failure point on these units is the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches.
    It is a good idea to change these every 100K miles or so and will often fix any problems that you may be having. I just changed mine and it made a world of difference.
    Here are the part numbers:
    28600-RKE-004
    28610-RKE-004

    These are parts # 10 & 11 in the diagram and are very easy to get to from the front wheel well.

    Also, I would highly recommend getting the factory Honda Z1 ATF out of there - it has too many friction modifiers and will eventually cause the friction plates to wear out prematurely. I recommend Redline D4 or Amsoil.

    For more info, check out this discussion:
    http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721508
    Scott N, CTS-D, ME
    Charlotte, NC
    2005 Res Navi Sand Pearl
    www.hondapartsunlimited.com

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  3. #2
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    Is this what you are talking about?

    http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
    05 EX-L/RES

  4. #3
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    Those are the parts for the Acura. The Honda part numbers are a little different for some unknown reason.

    They are parts 10 & 11 here:
    http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...OID+%28-+06%29
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Easy Transmission FIX - Pressure Switches-honda-pressure-switches.jpg  

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    Scott
    I just spent an hour reading those posts and gave up and jumped to the last page. So is it still the same idea, changing out pressure switch 3 and 4 and trans fuild. Oh and reset the ECU (remove bat's neg cable?).

    Thanks
    05 EX-L/RES

  6. #5
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    Here is the instructions for resetting the ECU on the Acura TL - not sure if it's the same on the Odyssey.
    key on, pedal down,15sec,
    keyoff,5sec,pedalup,2 min

    Here is a good thread on picking a transmission fluid (read the first page and last few pages):
    http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=764322
    I put Redline D4 in mine and am happy with the way it works.

    I will eventually put in a Magnefine filter and take out the stock filter. I have already done this on my TL.http://www.magnefine.com/

    Also, most people are doing the 3x3 fluid change, but I would recommend doing the pump and refill method by disconnecting the cooler line behind the bumper. This will get out 90% of the old stuff out and not waste any of the new fluid. I did it last weekend and it is pretty easy. Let me know if you need any help on the procedure.

  7. #6
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    I did the reset for the Ody then and it seems to help. Will try the switches if the problem returns.

    Key on, pedal down 5 sec, key off, pedal up, 2 mins before starting.
    05 EX-L/RES

  8. #7
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    From this thread
    It is somewhat common knowledge among Honda transmission experts that the most common failure point on these units is the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches.
    1: Need more info as to whether the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches are really the problem. If the 4th gear pressure switch were the problem, we should see worn out 4th gear clutches. We do not see that. In 5 speed Odysseys of an earlier generation, mostly we saw worn out 3rd gear clutches only. If the pressure switches last only 50K miles, as in the original post at the Acurazine, they are piss poor hardware. I was expecting Honda parts to hold up better but ended up very disappointed. Mine failed too soon.
    It is a good idea to change these every 100K miles or so and will often fix any problems that you may be having.
    2: The first post in the thread actually said 50k miles. And ranged widely among various Honda Acura transmissions of many years. From Acurazinehttp://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721508
    He recommended to replace both of these sensors at 50,000 mile intervals and says it will live a long and happy life if you do so.
    From this thread:
    Also, I would highly recommend getting the factory Honda Z1 ATF out of there - it has too many friction modifiers and will eventually cause the friction plates to wear out prematurely. I recommend Redline D4 or Amsoil.
    3: The referenced link http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721508
    actually ends up recommending Type F racing ATF. http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showt...721508&page=16
    Evidence is anectodal. If true, another nail in the coffin for Z1.
    Last edited by baseball; 12-08-2010 at 11:41 AM.

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    You can use your discretion as to when the right time is for you and your vehicle. 50K and 100K miles are just simple guidelines to help with remembering that it may be a good time to change these out. My van has 92K and I changed them due to the transmission having slow upshifts and harsh downshifts. Only you can determine when the right time it is for your van.

    As far as the fluid is concerned, the Racing ATF suggested on the other site is tried and true on those cars. The Acura TL has an automatic throttle cutback feature during upshifts - this smoothes out the shift. For this reason, the TL guys have been able to run this fluid with no adverse affects. I would be very interested to know if this fluid can also be used in our vans with no problems. For me, I went with the D4 b/c it is a midpoint between the Z1 (highly friction modified) and the Racing ATF (no friction modifiers). This is where I felt most comfortable with my van. But, I have the Racing ATF in my TL and it works great.
    Anyone tried Redline Racing ATF in their van yet?

  10. #9
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    Originally posted by scottn3
    I***snip**** I would highly recommend getting the factory Honda Z1 ATF out of there - it has too many friction modifiers and will eventually cause the friction plates to wear out prematurely. I recommend Redline D4 or Amsoil.****snip****[/url]
    I read the link (and others on Acurazine). Who concluded that ATF-Z1 friction modifiers lead to excessive wearing of the clutch frictions? I'm just wondering how they arrived at that conclusion. One of the guys in your supplied link makes this claim with no material science (laboratory) or shop evidence, so I'm curious, for these reasons:

    First, those Acurazine guys found this great link:

    NHTSA report on Acura TL 5-spd Problems

    Start with page 111 for the analysis. Prior pages yield some excellent background information.

    Second, the 2002-2004 Ody A/T's and the Acura TL A/T's referenced in that report are amazingly similar in construction, from top to bottom. So far, all of the pics I've seen of 2002-2004 Ody A/T frictions and steels show that the Z1 does a great job at preserving clutch material on both sides of any given splined friction plate in the 1st, 2nd, 4th & 5th clutch packs. Nearly every time, even on A/T's with well over 100,000 miles, those components appear to have the proper amount of wear for the given driving conditions, and look like they could very, very easily provide well in excess of another 100,000 miles of service.

    Third, that 3rd (pun intended) clutch is another matter entirely. I don't believe it is a defect of the ATF. The NHTSA analysis infers that it's an ATF low flow state into the 3rd clutch pack coupled with a surface roughness peculiarity on the 3rd clutch steels (the stationary plates in the clutch drum, sandwiched between the frictions). Too-low ATF flow into a clutch pack means a few things: not enough transfer of heat over an observed time frame, so that clutch pack gets really hot (over 300-deg C mentioned earlier in the report...that's over 570-deg F) coupled with the slipping that this overheating can promote, along with thermal degradation of the clutch surfaces.

    ATF-Z1, to my knowledge is not being restocked by Honda dealers any longer, and is being replaced by their new ATF DW-1.

    I'm an AmSOil ATF user in our 2002 & 2003 Odys, and use ATF-Z1 plus Lubegard in our 1998 Accord (I've got 3 cases of Z1 I have to use up, the Accord now has 177,000 miles), so I can't personally comment on the Redline product, though I've heared nothing but positive reviews for all the fine items that Redline markets.

    OF
    2003 Ody EX-L RES 103.5k OEM fogs & hitch, bbylon5 screen mod, chuck k fog mod#2, cnn 82C t-stat mod
    2002 Ody EX RES 96.0k OEM fogs & hitch, chuck k fog mod#1
    1998 Accord LX174k. DIY: Haynes 676 ATF cooler; T & acc belts & tensioners.
    1982 Ebbtide DynaTrak bass boat, 200hp Merc, DIY re-fit 2006-07: CMC jackplate, Teleflex Canada Steering, Torque-Shift 14-26 vari-pitch SS prop
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  11. #10
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    Thanks scottn3 for providing those instrutions. I really understand it now.

  12. #11
    Registered User MTPockets08's Avatar
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    Re: Easy Transmission FIX - Pressure Switches

    Originally posted by scottn3
    I got this info from the Acura TL forum and it also applies to our van's transmission as well - they are the exact same transmissions.
    Which generation Ody transmission does this apply to? 2007-2010 are different from 2006 and under 5spds.

    Joel
    2008 Honda Ody LX babe magnet.
    2012 Subaru Legacy 2.5i CVT.
    Vehicles of the past: 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe, 2007 Chevy Cobalt LS, 2001 Windstar, 2005 Trailblazer 4x4, 2002 Isuzu Rodeo 4x4 and lots more

  13. #12
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    Joel, the OP at Acurazine.com owns a 2006 TL. This issue regards the 2006 and prior Odys, as you noted. The OP from Acurazine also posted the following:

    "I think this is why some of the supercharged auto transmissions hold up fine while some stock ones die an early death. It's just the luck of the draw, who got the good sensors and who got the bad ones."

    There is no data to support that in the NHTSA report posted in the same forum. The report did find that 3.2TL trannies had two vendors for a thrust bearing to the 3rd clutch pack, plus other items affecting ATF flow into the 3rd clutch pack. Will talk about that later with a quick look at page 125.

    The pic on page 93 of the NHTSA report looks like it was lifted from my Helm Manual (2002-2004 transmission section). Same for the one on page 109.

    Page 94 shows a flowchart of the mechanism for malfunction. The pressure sensing switches aren't mentioned as a problem, but the amount of available pressure to those switches due to clogged screens is mentioned in text in other parts of the report, as far as I could tell in reading this magnum opus.

    Page 104 notes in several instances that a burnt 3rd clutch always resulted in "hydraulic circuits contaminated" (read this as liberated material loose in the sump and circuits, or trapped in the screens, often clogging them).

    Page 125 gives a very possible reason or reasons why some of these transmissions (very similarly constructed to our 2002-2004, and with modification, similar to the 2005-2006 Ody trannies) get less ATF flow to the 3rd clutch and contribute to problems, while other trannies sometimes seem to lead a longer life. I'm using the same numbers as on the report:

    1.) There's a grooved washer that allows ATF to flow through its groove from a port underlying it. A straight shot is obviously better, but a different washer orientation, though still supplying ATF flow, crimps the flow by 15%. This appears to be underneath the 3rd clutch spring, but hard to tell.
    2.) There's a plug affecting ATF flow for the 3rd clutch pack that appears to allow ATF to make a perpendicular direction change from one port to another, and again a straight shot is better, but a different plug orientation can lesson ATF flow by 3%. Doesn't seem like much.
    3.) Another big one....two different thrust bearing manufacturers, NTN and TRINTON. The NTN allows more ATF flow; using TRINTON bearings drops flow by about 13% (report says Honda now using only NTN bearings).

    The average lubrication rate is 1325 cc per minute (I averaged the max rates). If, by sheer bad luck of the draw, you had all 3 of the identified flow restricting conditions, you'd have approx. 31% reduction of ATF flow into the 3rd clutch pack...that's just from orientating one washer, one plug, and choice of bearing brand used in assembly...these alone are assembly issues, and the guy assembling the tranny is not necessarily doing anything wrong!

    Page 126 notes at the bottom that engineering drawings for a 3rd clutch ATF flow fix (change to washer groove, plus enlarging a specific port diameter) would be in place by 15 November...best I can tell 2003, which means sometime early in the 2004 model year. Many posters here at Odyclub noted that sometime in 2004 there were internal ATF flow improvements, thus helping to improve 3rd clutch reliability; it appers that this NHTSA report backs up this assertion. Also, note that A/T reliability picks up for the better on 2004, 05 and 06 Odys (all are 3-shaft designs) on the TrueDelta site (I'm a data-contributing member).

    Although I Hate Cars (the poster on Acurazine) opines that changing sensor switches fixes the problem, the NHTSA report (also posted on Acurazine) notes that the root problem is a combination of possible 3rd clutch ATF flow restriction conditions coupled with 3rd clutch pack steel roughness specification, hence the resulting cascade of problems flow-charted on page 94 (to include, as jofei mentioned, clogged screens).

    OF
    Last edited by 0dyfamily; 12-30-2010 at 02:42 PM.
    2003 Ody EX-L RES 103.5k OEM fogs & hitch, bbylon5 screen mod, chuck k fog mod#2, cnn 82C t-stat mod
    2002 Ody EX RES 96.0k OEM fogs & hitch, chuck k fog mod#1
    1998 Accord LX174k. DIY: Haynes 676 ATF cooler; T & acc belts & tensioners.
    1982 Ebbtide DynaTrak bass boat, 200hp Merc, DIY re-fit 2006-07: CMC jackplate, Teleflex Canada Steering, Torque-Shift 14-26 vari-pitch SS prop
    SNAPPER mower 5.5hp Honda


  14. #13
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    I guess I'll go first to try this.

    I had the P0740 with the Tranny slipping sometimes.

    I was looking for a cure when i stumbled on this thread. Read the acurazine threads and...

    I just did a Flush the Redline Racing ATF using the Cooler method. It was recently flushed with a machine by a mechanic using ATFZ1. maybe 500 miles ago only. the ATF Z1 flush did help but the improvement is not as quick nor as good as switching to the Racing ATF.

    the fluid during flushing was dark with lots of debris at that you can see at the bottom of the pail. Drain plug was really encrusted with the gray gunk and spiky metal filings.

    40+ mi so far and no CEL.

    Shifts are smooth and quick so far. Power and Acceleration seemed to be restored. Will report back from time to time in the long run to see how good this really is.

    I was a bit confused with the cooler flush method since i havent seen it before. can someone point me to a video for future reference?

    I also did the pressure switch change, but i cant tell if that made any difference.

    Solenoid C was clogged tho and i think replacing the screen also helped.

    Thanks!

    CK.
    Last edited by Odypyro; 01-24-2011 at 04:16 AM.


    Ody Stats (1/24/11):
    04 Ody EX - 181.5k mi. Stock
    Added: TruCool 4543 Cooler, Magnefine, RedLine Racing ATF, replaced Pressure Switches.
    (5/16/11): added an electric fan to tranny cooler for city traffic.(6/13/11): Added Ultragauge,
    (9/23/11): Tranny rebuilt, used Redline LW Racing ATF. fixed broken power steering sensor connector wires
    (12/3/11): Tranny replaced. rebuilt original tranny didnt do well, totally replaced with another new rebuilt.

  15. #14
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    Originally posted by amati5
    I did the reset for the Ody then and it seems to help. Will try the switches if the problem returns.

    Key on, pedal down 5 sec, key off, pedal up, 2 mins before starting.
    Which pedal?
    05 EXL-RES white/ivory

  16. #15
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