Steering vibrates between 65 - 75 mph
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Thread: Steering vibrates between 65 - 75 mph

  1. #1
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    Question Steering vibrates between 65 - 75 mph

    My steering vibrates / shakes in the 65 - 75 mph range. I am getting the run around from the dealer and mechanics to the point where I am ready to sell the vehicle after having spent over $1600! Any help to get this fixed will be greatly appreciated. I have read the other threads on the topic in this forum - but this situation appears to be somewat unique. More about the vehicle and the history follows:

    I have Honda Odyssey Touring 2005 - the one that comes with PAX tires.

    The shaking started a few months back. The PAX tires were very worn out. The mechanic said that the old tires were the likely cause and to replace them.

    I went ahead with depaxing and used the following:
    - Elbrus 17" rims
    - Goodyear Assurance Comfortred tires: 235/65R17

    The vibration continues. The new set has been road force balanced 7 times at two different places - one of which was a dealer. Two of the four new tires have been replaced yet again to see if that makes a difference. The speed at which the vibration occurs changes with each balance - but the basic problem stays.

    The shop that put the new tires says that it must be something else - and is not related to the new rims, tires, or wheel balance. The dealer says that it has to do with the new rims and tires - and likely with the tires- and that to eliminate the problem, I need to go back to the PAX tires.

    What could be the problem? What should I try next to figure it out? Much thanks in advance for the advise.

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  3. #2
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    Motor mount. Do a search and you'll see it's a huge issue.
    2006 Touring

  4. #3
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    I will get that checked out.

    Some more details on the vibration symptoms as it may help the knowledgeable identify the root cause:
    - It happens at speeds of 65-75 mph only.
    - It happens when the car is accelerating as well as when it is coasting (accelerator is not pressed).
    - It is not related to braking.

  5. #4
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    I'm going to punt the ball on the motor mount issue. I've literally been dealing with the same problem today. We had a vibration at the same speeds you have. I replaced the motor mount as there were other signs that it was bad. The mount change didn't resolve the issue, but it did make things better. I then rotated my tires and the issue is much better. What that tells me is that one or two of the wheels/tires are out of balance or out of round.

    On your situation:

    1. Aftermarket wheels typically require adapter rings to make sure the wheels are properly centered on the hubs. Have your tire shop verify that the rings are present and flush to the hub.

    2. Have your tire shop rotate wheels and see if that helps.

    3. Have the motor mount checked.

    4. Have the inner CV joints checked as a worn inner joint will show up as a vibration. Usually they don't go bad unless the grease has puked out due to a torn boot or similar.

    Good luck.
    2006 Touring

  6. #5
    Registered User curiousgeorge2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shall36 View Post
    1. Aftermarket wheels typically require adapter rings to make sure the wheels are properly centered on the hubs. Have your tire shop verify that the rings are present and flush to the hub.
    +1

    Hub rings can also be loose in the wheel bore. If they are nice and snug and have absolutely no play, then check the other things Shall suggested. This one is the cheapest and quickest to check.

    2007 Odyssey Touring Navi/RES Dark Cherry/Ivory

    Mods / Upgrades
    - Honda Care 8yr/120,000 mile extended warranty
    - Fender Well trim (08P21-SHJ-100)
    - Color Matching Door Edge Guards
    - Mud Flaps (08P00-SHJ-101)
    - Trunk Liner
    - Spare Tire & Jack
    - Cargo Storage Net
    - Plus One Leather Center Seat Added (2008 Model with storage area)
    - Viper 5701 LE Remote Start w/ Comfort Closure & full control of side doors and lift gate (one key FOB!)
    - Two extra Viper 2-way Remotes (7251V)
    - RES DVD Video on Navi Screen using NavTV (RGBHON+)
    - 3M Window Tint on front doors (20%) and Windshield (45%)
    - Hella 80W low beam bulbs (HLA-H83170031)
    - Front & Rear Centric Parts Posi Quiet Ceramic Brake Pad
    - 17" Special Edition SE-14 dePAX Replacement Wheels - Installed
    - Polycarbonate Hub Centric Rings from Justforwheels.com (64.1/79.5)
    - Aftermarket Honda Emblem Center Cap Decals
    - Michelin Primacy MXV4 Tires (235/60R17)
    - Wheel Locks
    - Sunshine Kids Stuff 'n Scuff Seat Protectors
    - Using AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASMQT)
    - Using AMSOIL Synthetic Transmission Fluid (ATFQT-EA)

    Repairs Under Warranty:
    - Dead Battery
    - Front Driver's Side Seat Back Squeak
    - Driver's Side Sliding Door Creak (TSB #06-003)
    - Fog Light Adjustment
    - Delay When Shifting from R to D (TSB #07-063)
    - Torque Converter Shutter (TSB #09-053)
    - Steering Wheel Is Hard to Turn Quickly at Low Speeds (TSB #10-076
    - Peeling paint on rear lift gate on the lip above the license plate (74892-SHJ-A61ZL)
    - Passenger Side AC Vent Decal Missing
    - Driver's Side Window Auto Roll-up Issue
    - RES Headphones Not Working (TSB# 07-084)
    - Key FOB #1 Stopped Working
    - Brake Pedal Feels Soft (TSB# 07-045)
    - Driver's Side Center Row Seat Rattle
    - Groaning Noise from Brakes When Hot (TSB #06-024)
    - Cracking leather on driver's seat bottom on the side facing the door.
    - Large glove compartment door does not close flush
    - PCM update
    - Rear Wheels Howl or Moan When Braking
    - Scratch on B pillar garnish created when dealer replaced the front seat
    - Tailgate Gas Struts Failing (TSB #12-011)
    - Gap on Dashboard around Airbag (TSB #09-017)
    - Right and Left Lower Control Arms Replaced
    - Rear Engine Mount Replaced

  7. #6
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    agoyal:

    I refer you to the Honda Service News 5 Part Article Series “Excessive Steering Wheel Shimmy or Chassis Vibration”
    http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SN/A07100V.PDF
    http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/A07100V.PDF

    Honda/Acura has specified a road force limit of 10lbs in part 5.

    Mention it to your dealer or print out a copy for your independent shop. Have them follow it to the letter.

    Good luck and please post an update.
    2008 Odyssey Touring non-PAX
    Silver Pearl Metallic w/ Black Interior
    Mobil 1 5W-20 with Honda Oil Filter 15400-PLM-A01 or 15400-PLM-A02
    Shell (or other Top-Tier Gas)
    Honda Care 6yr/120K from Bernardi Honda
    WeatherTech FloorLiner (1st, 2nd, 3rd Row)
    WeatherTech Cargo Liner (Coverage Area: Behind 2nd Seat)

    TSBs applied: 07-045 (Brake Pedal Is Low and Feels Soft), 08-080 (Wind Noise or Rattle From Front Doors), 09-053 (Product Update: Lock-Up Clutch Judders Between 2045 MPH / PCM Update for Lock-Up Clutch Function), 10-024 (No XM Sound, But XM Station Information Is Displayed)

    Safety Recalls applied: 10-017 (Air In VSA Modulator-Control Unit Causes Low/Soft Brake Pedal)

    Warranty Repairs: Torque converter replaced at 38,349 miles, Water passage replaced at 38,349 miles, HOSE A, WATER, HOSE C, WATER, and RUBBER, THERMOSTAT MOUNTING replaced at 39,673 miles. Second software update (unreleased and released) applied to PCM

  8. #7
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    Measure the runout of the wheels. A steering vibration may not be caused by wheel balance.

    To test if the motor mounts are the problem, shift carefully to N when the vibration is happening, and then let the RPM's go to idle. If the vibration stops, it could be motor mounts. (This is best done on a downhill grade where the van can keep its speed without engine power.)
    2002 Odyssey EX FG
    Honda hood deflector, mud guards, AC condenser screen mod, Zyml wax, Amsoil EaO20 oil filter, Amsoil synthetic 5W20, Krown rustproofing, block heater (gets cc...cold in Canada in winter!)
    Original transmission at 117,000 miles/189,000 km, Amsoil ATF since 79,000 miles/127,000 km, Honda aux ATF cooler, Magnefine aux ATF filter, 16 ATF drain & fills

  9. #8
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    Thanks a lot for the input. I will show this thread to my mechanic next week and will update this thread.

    I have one more piece of information to share. When the dealer did the road force balance with the Hunter GSP9700 system, it gave the following numbers:
    Left Front: 10 lbs
    Right Front: 22 lbs
    Left rear: 23 lbs
    Right rear: 32 lbs

    Does this indicate something?

  10. #9
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    Have you tried an alignment yet? Also try raising the vehicle and rock the wheel left, right and up and down to see if there is any play in the steering. Try with the rear wheels too.


    On my old Eclipse I had some very slight play in the steering tie rod ends on my right front wheel. I could hear it shimmy slightly at speed. I had it fixed plus alignment and new tires and my problem went away.

    Also like others have said, use the centering rings. They help ensure proper centering on the hub.


    Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app

  11. #10
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    An update:

    I took it to the mechanic with a printout of this thread. He checked the vehicle and said that none of these things seem to be the problem. He is not sure what the problem is.

    So I thought that I should try to narrow down if the problem is due to the new wheels+tires or due to something else. To do that, I wanted to go back to PAX and see. I have managed to find 2 PAX wheels+tires so far. After installing them in the front, I found that while the vibration is still there - it seems to be less in magnitude.

    At this time, I am trying to get my hands on 2 more PAX wheels+tires. With all 4 tires back on PAX, I will be able to identify whether the issue is with new wheels+tires or something else. I hope to get there next week. Will post an update when I find out.

    Have any of you had this problem after depaxing?

  12. #11
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    agoyal:

    Based on the road force measurements you posted, the LF is within the Honda/Acura 10 lbs limit spec. The rest are out of spec and may be the source of your issue.

    The 2005 Touring did have TSB 04-066 "Steering Wheel Vibrates When Driving Between 60 and 70 MPH", however, just about all of that stuff is covered in the 5 part article series.

    If you are able to definitely rule out a wheel/tire issue, then also check your alignment....specifically the front toe. If it is out of spec, it could cause the same symptom. I posted info and my experience in the post below.

    Front end shake
    Last edited by EE4Life; 08-20-2012 at 01:48 PM.
    2008 Odyssey Touring non-PAX
    Silver Pearl Metallic w/ Black Interior
    Mobil 1 5W-20 with Honda Oil Filter 15400-PLM-A01 or 15400-PLM-A02
    Shell (or other Top-Tier Gas)
    Honda Care 6yr/120K from Bernardi Honda
    WeatherTech FloorLiner (1st, 2nd, 3rd Row)
    WeatherTech Cargo Liner (Coverage Area: Behind 2nd Seat)

    TSBs applied: 07-045 (Brake Pedal Is Low and Feels Soft), 08-080 (Wind Noise or Rattle From Front Doors), 09-053 (Product Update: Lock-Up Clutch Judders Between 2045 MPH / PCM Update for Lock-Up Clutch Function), 10-024 (No XM Sound, But XM Station Information Is Displayed)

    Safety Recalls applied: 10-017 (Air In VSA Modulator-Control Unit Causes Low/Soft Brake Pedal)

    Warranty Repairs: Torque converter replaced at 38,349 miles, Water passage replaced at 38,349 miles, HOSE A, WATER, HOSE C, WATER, and RUBBER, THERMOSTAT MOUNTING replaced at 39,673 miles. Second software update (unreleased and released) applied to PCM

  13. #12
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    Interesting to find this. I was just about to post and will be posting about replacing the front engine mount. I have a 2007 EX-L that has the same symptoms. When accelerating there is a bit of shake but it is smooth after that. Then at 62mph until 65mph there is some shake then again at 70mph until 76mph. These are approximate speeds. To get rid of the shake I put on new tires as they were needed and new shocks and struts all the way around. Still the same issue.

    Took it to the local Honda dealer and they told me the side and front engine mount are bad and need replacement and that because they are worn it damaged the bearings on the end of the half shaft and that is what is causing the vibrations. I have ordered the mounts and will be replacing them this weekend. After that is done I will tackle the half shaft. Maybe replace the whole passenger side axle assembly just in case. My 2007 has 80k miles on it.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by frogbite View Post
    Interesting to find this. I was just about to post and will be posting about replacing the front engine mount. I have a 2007 EX-L that has the same symptoms. When accelerating there is a bit of shake but it is smooth after that. Then at 62mph until 65mph there is some shake then again at 70mph until 76mph. These are approximate speeds. To get rid of the shake I put on new tires as they were needed and new shocks and struts all the way around. Still the same issue.

    Took it to the local Honda dealer and they told me the side and front engine mount are bad and need replacement and that because they are worn it damaged the bearings on the end of the half shaft and that is what is causing the vibrations. I have ordered the mounts and will be replacing them this weekend. After that is done I will tackle the half shaft. Maybe replace the whole passenger side axle assembly just in case. My 2007 has 80k miles on it.
    Wow, I have the EXACT same problem, same car and same mileage. My problem only appeared after I had the tires recently rotated. Before that rotation, there was no problem. I took the van back and the the tires re-balanced and there were all off by 2 ounces or more. It helped, but did not eliminate the problem. The tire shop is packed with idiots so I'm just going to live with it until the tires wear out which should be fairly soon.

  15. #14
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    I finally was able to get my issue resolved. Similar to above, I took the van to a different tire shop and they re-balanced the wheels. Vibration is much better.

    I'm convinced that either most balancing machines are out of calibration or the users are just not using them correctly. A tire balancer is on my wish list because I'm tired of dealing with incompetent boobs at tire shops.
    2006 Touring

  16. #15
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    To narrow the source, I put back the PAX wheels and tires (had to buy them from Craigslist!). The problem is mostly gone. There is a very slight vibration that happens sometimes. But that is possibly due to the road since it is not always reproducible - and is quite minor when it does happen. So it must be the new wheels and tires that caused the problem.

    Found a different person at the dealership when I went yesterday. He pointed out that the Elbrus wheels I had put on had a bigger hub circle than the original Honda wheels. There is an O-ring to make it smaller - but even with that it is bigger. That would cause the wheel to not be hub centric - but rather be held by lug nuts which can cause this vibration.

    Does that make sense? Could the root cause of this be the Elbrus wheels I put on? What is the solution? Would a smaller O-ring to go on the Elbrus wheels work or should I get different wheels? Which are the right wheels to use to depax (2005 Honda Odyssey Touring)?

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