Help! Crankshaft, camshaft, and misfire codes!

[mjody]

You need to read the Honda Service Manual!!!

I will,thank you so much for the advice.

[Northwoodshyun]

I have been asking my local area Honda dealers whether they replace the bolts with the new ones during TB job. They told me they do not replace any bolts (and tensions, idle pulley). Why would they take any chance either if the bolt failures are so common. Obviously it must be a low risk. It is funny that Honda dealers do not follow their own service manuals in many instances.

[mjody]

Because it is not common. I have never changed the bolts on any of my vehicles or friends/families timing belt jobs. A handful of posters had it break, out of what, millions of J series motors. I can read, and I can see it recommends new bolts, but I have never replaced them and don't intend to.
If others feel comfort I doing so, then by all means do it. Ymmv

[Northwoodshyun]

I currently have just under 88K miles on my 05LX and have been putting about 5000-6000 miles a year at the most. So it will be some time (at least two years) before I really need to change my TB. At this rate, the recommended 105K will come around summer of 2016. My 05LX will be worth $2000 at the most so $1000 TB job by the dealer is definitely not a consideration. Perhaps, I just may drive it until the TB brakes then donate the car.

[mjody]

An 05 is worth a lot more than $2k. Not sure what you are getting at?

[cnn]

There are a few important points for other people who read this thread:

1. Most car mfg's these days mention there are 2 schedules ("normal" service.....which means primarily highway driving, and "severe"....which means stop-and-go driving). Believe it or not, most people in this forum belong to the "severe" category.
- What makes matter more confusing is mfg A (Volvo) says 7yr/80K while mfg B (Honda) says 7yr/105K. Whether the TB is made by Contitech or Mitsuboshi. Honda says 7yr/105K to make the owners feel better, good marketing trick.
- I think a very reasonable approach for virtually all cars is 7yr/80K-90K (+/- 1-2yr/10K). This is what I do for my Volvo at home. When removing the Volvo TB at 85K, I can clearly see very minor cracks, nothing major, but why take the risk?

2. Doing a TB on time increases the resales value of the car. If a prospective buyer sees a 100K Ody with fresh TB, that van will sell better than one with old TB.

3. The broken bolts business. I suspect the cause was overtorque but the people in this forum with broken bolts said that they used torque wrench. Anyway, who knows.
For me, this broken bolt business is like buying life insurance.....you pay ___$/year, in case you die, your family gets ______$ to survive.
The bottom line is: when the consequence is drastic (engine death) and there is a small chance it (broken bolts) can happen, and considering the bolts at about $12 for all four bolts, why risk engine death?

It basically boils down:
a. Have the TB done at dealer, the dealer does whatever they want re the bolts. You are at the dealer's mercy, however, the work is warranted for 12m/12K.
b. DIY: replace vs re-use the bolts. It is your choice.

4. My last comment is: TB technology is dumb and should be phased out. 99% of BMWs runs on Timing Chain for years and years. TC lasts some 300K. The newer Toyota Sienna (2007+) run on Timing Chain.
The mfg's that use TB claim that the engine runs more quietly than a car with TC, but I'd disagree on it because I own both at home, the BMW is dead quiet. I think the main reason TB is still around is money: dealers sells TB and the job, their mechanics have a job and that is just about. Good for economy eh???

[Northwoodshyun]

@CNN,
Well said. A wise Yoda! Hopefully someday I can earn the Jedi badge.

[baseball]

3. The broken bolts business. I suspect the cause was overtorque but the people in this forum with broken bolts said that they used torque wrench..

Broken bolt? I think the bolt was bad. Interestingly, the '99-04 Odyssey FSM does NOT mention replacing the idler pulley bolt. The 2009 Pilot FSM DOES. This suggests that the bolt has failed often enough to recommend replacing. Bad bolt from Honda. Also if the bolt is steel into aluminum, galvanic corrosion may happen.

How much torque should a steel bolt be able to take? Much more than the 33 ft lb specified for this bolt. How much torque to strip out idler pulley bolt hole in aluminum block if there is no insert? Maybe less than 55-85 ft lbs.
If spark plugs in Aluminum heads are similar to idler pulley bolt in Al block, one person reported that a spark plug in an Al junk head "At 55 ft lbs it felt like the threads were just starting to stretch. From 55 to 85 I got about 1 1/2 turns more out of them, and it did not feel good." This should be well below the strength of a steel bolt. See link. Tested for the breaking point on the early 4 spark plug thread heads - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

However, the TB tensioner bolt is smaller than a spark plug so it should strip out the aluminum block at less than 55-85 ft lbs if the block has no insert.
This suggests that the torque exerted on the idler pulley bolt when the OP installed it could be below 55-85 ft lbs if the installer made a mistake. More likely the OP torqued correctly and the bolt was bad.

4. My last comment is: TB technology is dumb and should be phased out. 99% of BMWs runs on Timing Chain for years and years. TC lasts some 300K. The newer Toyota Sienna (2007+) run on Timing Chain.
The mfg's that use TB claim that the engine runs more quietly than a car with TC, but I'd disagree on it because I own both at home, the BMW is dead quiet. I think the main reason TB is still around is money: dealers sells TB and the job, their mechanics have a job and that is just about. Good for economy eh???

Agree totally. Other timing chain advantages. Timing chain can reduce length of the engine. Can be smaller than TB. Never had to change a timing chain. Have done several timing belts.

Yes, TB should be cheaper to make. Costs the owner more in maintenance. Timing chain needs oil. No need to oil the timing belt. No need to oil tight seal the TB area.
Also inertia. The Honda V6 always had a TB. Cheaper if do not change design.