2005 EX Shudder/Judder - Trans might not be the problem.

[odyx2]

I recently purchased a used 2005 EX with 93,000+ miles. After driving it for a couple of thousand miles, I started noticing a shudder at 40 to 50 mph. The shudder felt like I was driving over a washboard. At 60 to 70 mph it would come and go. I started researching this problem on this forum and read information about this being a problem with heat in the torque convertor and some were suggesting changing over to Amsoil synthetic trans fluid because it did not get as hot as petroleum based trans fluid. Others were saying it could be the rear motor mount needing to be replaced. I took the car to my Honda mechanic. He has a private owned and operated shop and specializes in Honda automobiles. I do not use dealers because I want to personally know the guy who is working on my car. I asked him about switching to Amsoil and he didn't think that was a good idea. He always likes to use original Honda recommended parts and fluids. He took it for a test drive and came back and said he knew exactly what the problem was. The rear motor mount was shot and had to be replaced along with both axles. He explained the reason the axles had to be replaced as well, was that the movement in the gearing connecting the axles to the drive shaft was worn and pitted. This was caused by the movement of the engine caused by the loose motor mount. Cost me $1,400 but now the car dives like a dream. I am happy again. Conclusion - I hope, if you are experiencing shudder that you will have the rear motor mount checked before you do anything else.

[amati5]

Our 05's shudder was cured with new rear motor mount and the car was driving very well for a while after that. But then, all of a sudden, without any symtom, the trans died during a 2 hrs heavy traffic trip. I am not sure what to think of it.

Now both of the axles needed replacement too (leaking). Your mechanic might right about the cause of the failed axles. Our van had had the shudder for a while before it was fixed, probably wasn't good for the axles.

[4x4rock]

When I brought mine in to flash the tranmission firmware, I asked them to check the rear mount and they said it checked out ok. The firmware fixed the shudder by changing the shift point and increased the RPM about 200RMP higher than before.

[06 Odyssey]

4x4rock what did the dealer charge for the firmware update?

[4x4rock]

06, it was free as I was under the 8 years 105k miles.

[odyx2]

Our 05's shudder was cured with new rear motor mount and the car was driving very well for a while after that. But then, all of a sudden, without any symtom, the trans died during a 2 hrs heavy traffic trip. I am not sure what to think of it.

Now both of the axles needed replacement too (leaking). Your mechanic might right about the cause of the failed axles. Our van had had the shudder for a while before it was fixed, probably wasn't good for the axles.

I hope the motor mount and axles fixed my problem. Only time will tell. It sure is riding good now. I am very impressed with my mechanics abilities in diagnosing problems. He was working on my 1996 LX before I got the 05.

Just wanted to alert people, that if you are experiencing shudder, be sure to check the rear motor mount and axles first. He did tell me that driving with a new motor mount without changing the axles would only delay having more problems.

[ldl58]

90k on 05 EXL replaced rear motor mount. It took care of the shudder, judder occurring at 55 to 70mph. Asked for consideration at the dealership and was denied. Repair cost $800. Was told by dealer there is grease leaking from both inner axle boots and right axle boots at the bands. Declined service on replacing the boots. I know now thanks to this post that probably the issues with the axles was precipitated by the vibration of the defective rear motor mount. I now get a slight vibration when accelerating briskly at 60 mph. I suspect this will get worse as time goes on and will have to replace both axles.

[odyx2]

90k on 05 EXL replaced rear motor mount. It took care of the shudder, judder occurring at 55 to 70mph. Asked for consideration at the dealership and was denied. Repair cost $800. Was told by dealer there is grease leaking from both inner axle boots and right axle boots at the bands. Declined service on replacing the boots. I know now thanks to this post that probably the issues with the axles was precipitated by the vibration of the defective rear motor mount. I now get a slight vibration when accelerating briskly at 60 mph. I suspect this will get worse as time goes on and will have to replace both axles.

You might want to consider going ahead and having the axels replaced if your mechanic thinks they are worn or pitted due to the movement in the bad motor mount that was replaced. The way my mechanic explained it to me was that the motor mount, the axles and the trans are all interconnected and to prevent having problems with the trans the axles need to run with no vibration in order to keep it from effecting the performance of the trans.

Refer back, in this thread, to amati5 post.

Thanks,
Sam

[pkrface]

You might want to consider going ahead and having the axels replaced if your mechanic thinks they are worn or pitted due to the movement in the bad motor mount that was replaced. The way my mechanic explained it to me was that the motor mount, the axles and the trans are all interconnected and to prevent having problems with the trans the axles need to run with no vibration in order to keep it from effecting the performance of the trans.

Refer back, in this thread, to amati5 post.

Thanks,
Sam

Agreed. Operating with a known vibration and suspect axle boots/joints is a recipe for failed axle seals where the axle comes out of the transmission. This is a case where making the decision to delay repair may cost you a lot more in the long run. Next will be the axle seals and if left go it will eventually leak enough to drain down the trans fluid to the point where you fry the trans. A true pay a little now or a lot later situation. Ask me how I know Not on my Ody, but a previous ride.

[ldl58]

I'll pay now and call and set up an appointment this week to check the axles. Appreciate the sage advice. I firmly believe this all stems from the VCM.

[odyx2]

ldl58,
Be interested to know what you find out.
Thanks,
Sam

[amati5]

We had the left axle replaced in Dec/12 and the right one was (looked) perfect. After a skiing trip, driving with snow chain for about 30 miles, the right axle now leaks. I wonder about others who have to use chain everyday for the winter?

[ldl58]

Went to the dealer yesterday they found both right and left inner boots torn also leakage at both inner axle seals. Again this all stemmed from poorly designed VCM system that prematurely wears out the rear engine mount. The costs (prepare for sticker shock): $1,027 see breakdown below

Chassis Replace left side axle 7305 CP $255
Chassis Replace right side axle 7305 CP $321
Chassis Replace both axle seals 7305 CP $125
Labor total $701

Parts
Two 44018-S3V-A62 boot set, outboard $119
Two 44017-SHJ-A01 boot set, inboard $119
One Oil Seal 91206-POZ-005 (35x54x8) $19
One Oil Seal 91205-POX-005 (40x56x9) $19
Shop charges for repair order $50
Parts Total $326

How bad did I overpay?

[4x4rock]

Ouch. All this talk about engine mount wear out and axel seals replacement worry me. I had the flash done and the shudder is not happen as frequent or as strong as before, only when ECO light kicks in at freeway speed. But over $1k to fix issues result from it is insane.

[odyx2]

I had all that you had done plus the rear motor mount and it cost me $1,436.00. My mechanic said the motor mount by itself was around $600. I do not take my cars to a dealer for repairs, I like to be able to talk directly with the mechanic doing the work.

How is it riding now?

Thanks for the post.