What would be your lowest offer? 2010 Ody Touring

[Acura Sensei]

You and I agree on the end result, just not on the principle that anybody owning or working at a car dealership is a "thieving bastard". I just simply don't believe you have to be an a-hole to negotiate. Used is certainly much harder than new as the dealer is just as capable of making a mistake on the allowed value as a buyer is to make mistake and pay too much. When they do and cannot retail it for a profit they will often ship it off to the auction and take the loss rather than retail it at a loss. Doesn't make sense maybe, but happens a lot.

I used to get frustrated with my used car manager when he would come back from the dealer auction having paid $2K more for an auction piece than he appraised a similar car for trade a week earlier. Yes, the trade required reconditioning which would have cost $500, but there was no way the auction car was worth $2K more. Having sold in a dealership for 5 years I can tell you they have a system and the best deal on used is nearly always had after they have had the car for 30+ days. Of course you take the chance that somebody comes along and offers them a fair price in the meantime. I can tell you that in many cases a ridiculous lowball offer frequently resulted in the salesman or sales manager refusing to come down as far as they would have for someone that was nicer. Offering a little less than they own if for does not insult them, but offering $5K less than they own it for usually does. I would love to go head to head with you at a dealer. You may have a bunch of experience negotiating deals, but I have been either employed at a dealer or selling to dealers for over 20 years. I bet the industry specific experience wins head to head. Not sure what you mean by dealing with the highest levels of ownership. Unless you have a personal relationship with the dealer principle or general manager they never get involved in a deal. If they do the price usually goes up as they do not like low profit margins. Ask me how I know...

Thanks for your insightful comments pkrface. I look forward to the negotiations after I take a closer look at the vehicle. I will update everyone on the results of my efforts to purchase this vehicle. Wish me luck!

[PAPAJOE26]

I worked sales new and used several years ago myself for about three years. I agree that the car dealers do like to try to avoid making a mistake on a trade-in, but it occasionally happens. They do like to try to leave themselves some cushion on the trade allowance and reconditioning costs to avoid ending up buried in a vehicle. That is why they try to steal your trade so to speak to have that extra leeway on their call along with maximizing their gross profit whether they retail or wholesale your trade-in vehicle. Boogety Boogety and Pkrface both have some good and valid ideas on negotiating a deal on a used car purchase. Pre-owned is a different animal than new. On new cars anybody with a brain can research the invoice price on any vehicle. Then armed with that info you can attempt to purchase 1.) below invoice on some cars, while having them go into their holdback, 2.) at invoice, or 3.) as little as $100-$500 over invoice. Any of these sceniaros are possible depending on market demand for that vehicle, inventory and many other variables. You can also shop one dealer against another etc., maybe even visiting 3-4 dealers if you are into that type of drill. The point is each model of new car is same if you find the exact options. The MSRP and invoice is exactly the same for each store.

Moving on to pre-owned automobiles, "knowledge is power" for the consumer is the most important thing to remember. With that being said here is some info that will be invaluable in your negotiations. Acura Sensi, the first thing to do is go to this website that I have found and used for my last several car purchases, and I have probably bought and sold about 30 cars in my personal lifetime. Trade-in Values. There are links to several tools in obtaining car values. This site has Black Book trade in values as well as retail values. There is also Kelley Blue Book trade in values as well as retail, and then there is NADA which I am being told is more the bible in today's car market more so than Black Book, which used to be the standard that was used by dealers for trade in allowance values. NADA was and is a good guide for wholesale dealer auction pricing. Another angle I have found to be very helpful is if the car is listed on autotrader.com and/or the dealers website, there may be a free Carfax or Accucheck (or Autocheck whatever it is called, I forget) on the vehicle that you can view. If so, a lot of times it will show when the dealer took the car in on trade or purchased from an auto auction. As was mentioned by Pkrface, if they have had the car for 30, or better yet 60, and especially if it approaching being a 90 day unit on their lot, then you have strength in knowledge that they may have already reduced it and they may be willing to negoiate even more. It is very common for a car dealer to have a markup of $3,000 to even $4000 in their asking price. When they are advertised at a sale price it is usually for $1500-$2000 above what they own the car for. So in all actuality it is very common for the gross profit on the sale of a used vehicle to be $1500-$3000. If one were succussful in paying only $1200-$1500 to the dealer, then you have done pretty well. That is the reality most people don't realize. That is the difference between wholesale and retail prices on cars. They have to average at least $1500 to $2500 to capitalize their business, pay commissions/salaries and keep the phone and lights on. Anyway, depending on if the dealership has the 2010 Odyssey Touring as a relatively fresh unit or if it is approaching being a 45-60 day unit, I would wager money that they are in that vehicle for roughly $24,000-$25,000.

One other site to check nout that is also invaluable is New Cars, Used Cars, Car Reviews and Pricing - Edmunds.com. They show TMV I think which is true market value. That is supposedly a survey of the average of what other people have paid recently. I researched a 2010 Odyssey Touring guessing that the mileage to be somewhere around 30,000 miles. Of course miles and condition are part of the picture to determine a fair value both to the buyer and seller. Using the mileage to be at 30,000, that site calls a trade-in value of $23,658, and an average dealer retail of $27,726, and a private party sale of $25,895. I have found that in the past if I was able to buy from a car dealer for the Edmunds private party sales price that I felt I got a really great deal, and I have accomplished that many times. I am guessing that the $27,000 listed price is already pretty competitive on a retail price basis, if the mileage were around the 30K like I guessed, I personally would go in offering about $24,500. My guess is they own it for somewhere between $23,600-$25,000 tops. Shoot for a purchase price of a nice round number of $25,000 plus tax, title, license, and doc fee if allowed and charged in NJ. If they won't do it and tell you they would be selling it for no profit or next to none, then try to settle around that private party price on Edmunds.com., which is $25,895. Inch your offer up in $100-$200 increments, or if you are not comfortable with the game of give and take in the negotiations, you can draw a line in the sand and maybe say ok, $25,900 is my final offer after a few attempts of the inch up method. Remember a little bit from both Pkrface and Boogety Boogety and try to be somewhere in between. Keep a smile and a sense of humor about you throughout in the negotiatioans, and have fun with it. If you come to an agreement on a deal, they will probably tell you they enjoyed dealing with you and they will likely truly mean it. Also, do as one of the other posters said (I forget which one), search autotrader.com within 50-100 mile radius to gauge the market for available comps and other possible Odysseys for price, milaeage and so on. Who knows, ther may be others to consider and move non. Good luck, and post for us how you made out.

[PAPAJOE26]

For some reason the web address for the trade-in values was removed from my previous posting. Just click on the link Trade-in Values in the previous post and the web page will come up.

[PAPAJOE26]

Acura Sensei, I just went back to your original post of the thread and noticed that the 2010 Odyssey Touring had 34,000 miles on it. That is a little higher than I had guesstimated before on my earlier postings. That being the case, then definitely maybe even an initial opening offer would be appropriate at maybe even $24,000. Based on what you will see if you research those sites for prices, and with my own research, then Boogety Boogety is really not realistic in saying you should offer $20,000.

[Acura Sensei]

Acura Sensei, I just went back to your original post of the thread and noticed that the 2010 Odyssey Touring had 34,000 miles on it. That is a little higher than I had guesstimated before on my earlier postings. That being the case, then definitely maybe even an initial opening offer would be appropriate at maybe even $24,000. Based on what you will see if you research those sites for prices, and with my own research, then Boogety Boogety is really not realistic in saying you should offer $20,000.

Hi PAPAJOE26... wow, that was quite an informative post. Thanks so much. I have been checking those sites as per your suggestion. Much appreciated for your input as well as others. I have more number crunching to do... including my own budget to determine my final price.

Wish me luck guys!

[pkrface]

Acura Sensei, I just went back to your original post of the thread and noticed that the 2010 Odyssey Touring had 34,000 miles on it. That is a little higher than I had guesstimated before on my earlier postings. That being the case, then definitely maybe even an initial opening offer would be appropriate at maybe even $24,000. Based on what you will see if you research those sites for prices, and with my own research, then Boogety Boogety is really not realistic in saying you should offer $20,000.

Agreed. That fits right in with my original post where I said I would not offer more than $3K less than they were asking, in other words, I would not offer more than about $24K to start.

[madsedan]

My wife and I negotiated a 2009 EX last summer with 27k miles, CPO, down to $22,7 if I remember right. Not sure how helpful that is but it was the same age as what you are looking at and a CPO just not a touring.

[PAPAJOE26]

Madsedan, that is not comparing apples to apples. Lets anaylize a little bit. Being that you purchase your '09 last summer that was a three year old vehicle, which compares to a '10 purchased now, also a three year old vehicle. The first diffeerence is your '09 was almost four years old in model years. Once the '13 models hit the showrooms in Sept., your '09 is considered four years old to the car business. What is a plus on your '09 is very low mileage for that model year (avg. 9k miles a year, and avg of roughly 7k miles in a few months when it is a four year old unit). On the other hand the '10 Odyssey with 34k miles is a three year old unit with still low miles, but closer to average miles (roughly 11,400 miles put on it in its three years in service). So, the difference in avg lower mileage to the one year difference in model years helps even the value of your '09 to the '10 that Acura Sensei is going to look at. Even though that brings the value of the two vehicles closer together, I see the acv actual cash value to have difference of at least $3,000-$4000 on a '10 Odyssey Touring with NAV+RES to a '09 Odyssey EX. Hence, for Acura Sensei to be getting a fair deal, and equavulent to your deal comparing apples to oranges would be around the exact numbers I stated, right around the $25,895 ballpark. One other thing is that in the aftermath of Sandy, the wholesale and retail prices of cars are selling at more of premium in the NJ area.

[madsedan]

OK, you win

Madsedan, that is not comparing apples to apples. Lets anaylize a little bit. Being that you purchase your '09 last summer that was a three year old vehicle, which compares to a '10 purchased now, also a three year old vehicle. The first diffeerence is your '09 was almost four years old in model years. Once the '13 models hit the showrooms in Sept., your '09 is considered four years old to the car business. What is a plus on your '09 is very low mileage for that model year (avg. 9k miles a year, and avg of roughly 7k miles in a few months when it is a four year old unit). On the other hand the '10 Odyssey with 34k miles is a three year old unit with still low miles, but closer to average miles (roughly 11,400 miles put on it in its three years in service). So, the difference in avg lower mileage to the one year difference in model years helps even the value of your '09 to the '10 that Acura Sensei is going to look at. Even though that brings the value of the two vehicles closer together, I see the acv actual cash value to have difference of at least $3,000-$4000 on a '10 Odyssey Touring with NAV+RES to a '09 Odyssey EX. Hence, for Acura Sensei to be getting a fair deal, and equavulent to your deal comparing apples to oranges would be around the exact numbers I stated, right around the $25,895 ballpark. One other thing is that in the aftermath of Sandy, the wholesale and retail prices of cars are selling at more of premium in the NJ area.

[JeffNa]

I too was in the same perdicament. I was looking for a 2010 Touring but nothing in Northern NJ area. I visited 6 dealerships (Metro, Rt23, Rt22, Garden State, DCH, Freehold. The wound up w/ a 2010 EXL w Res for $22.5K. I regret settlling. I could have done better but they gave me more for my trade-in than expected and my interest rate was 2.49%. This was during the year end clearance sale. I searched all the major websites and the best deal I found was 2010 EXL w Nav & Res for $24K w 32K miles at Planet Honda. A deposit was already accepted.

My favorite line to the dealer, "The Odyssey is a dime a dozen van" dont be afraid to walk out.

[Acura Sensei]

Hi JeffNa... that is my concern, I don't want to settle and end up regretting it. I've had a taste of the Touring model and that is the only model that I want.

To update everyone... I was unable to purchase the 2010 Touring. Papajoe26 was right on the mark! I was able to negotiate the original price of $27,XXX down to $25,889. Although some may consider that an excellent deal... it was still well beyond my budget. I had pushed for $25,500 and I would buy on the spot. But since the vehicle had not been on the lot for any longer than two weeks, the manager was not willing to make the deal. I walked out.

I had hoped that they would call me back with a counter offer... but it was too late. Yesterday someone from out-of-state placed a deposit on the vehicle. Needless to say, I was quite disappointed. I lost a deal based on a difference of a few hundred.

Now I must continue searching. I found two identical Touring models in CT and NY. But it is a further trek for me and the prices vary quite a bit. I lost quite a jewel... a very clean off-lease van.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that more Touring models will come off-lease in the weeks or months ahead. I have three months remaining to find a van. And I do not want to settle on an EX-L. Am I just being stubborn? I just want to make sure that I'm happy with this purchase for the long haul.

[Acura Sensei]

I too was in the same perdicament. I was looking for a 2010 Touring but nothing in Northern NJ area. I visited 6 dealerships (Metro, Rt23, Rt22, Garden State, DCH, Freehold. The wound up w/ a 2010 EXL w Res for $22.5K. I regret settlling. I could have done better but they gave me more for my trade-in than expected and my interest rate was 2.49%. This was during the year end clearance sale. I searched all the major websites and the best deal I found was 2010 EXL w Nav & Res for $24K w 32K miles at Planet Honda. A deposit was already accepted.

My favorite line to the dealer, "The Odyssey is a dime a dozen van" dont be afraid to walk out.

Planet Honda is full of unprofessional sales kids... with thugs as managers. One manager told me his internet price was "non-negotiable". That was enough for me to walk out. Who the hell is he kidding?

[pkrface]

Best of luck Acura. I usually find that the more patient I am the more I am rewarded, but once in while it goes backwards. I was shopping for a digital video camera right after Christmas 2011. Did my research and pretty much decided the model I wanted with a list of $649 was selling several places for $399. It dropped to $349 at Amazon and I decided to sleep on it and order it in the morning. By morning it was back to $399, so I waited hoping it would drop back to $349. It never went down after that and steadily climbed to $599. I was very disappointed, but eventually found another I liked better for $380. Keep the faith!

BTW, use searchtempest for wide area craigslist searches and don't rule out fsbo.

[dnachef]

I bought a 2010 Touring 3 weeks ago here in Honolulu at the only Acura dealer on the island. After negotiations and walking out the door one night to make sure their offer was really near their lowest price, I called them back the next day and negotiated it down a further $400 over the phone. So in my case, walking out the door at around closing time (9pm) and returning the next day saved me $400. My OTD price with tax, doc, license etc... was $26,259. Tax here in Honolulu is 4.71%, so do the math. The Touring was in great condition, but shy of excellent because there was a minor paint scrape on the rear passenger corner bumper about 3 inches in size. 35k miles, carfax showed one owner with all scheduled maintence done at Honda dealership. Keep in mind that things here in Honolulu tend to be priced higher in general compared to continental US. I paid cash for the car, so I'm not sure how much that affects pricing. Maybe I got lucky, but the sales person I negotiated with made the process as friendly as you could expect in a situation like this. I can't say the same about one of the Honda dealers here that we negotiated with on a new 2013 EX-L. In the end, we decided to go with the 2010 Touring to save some money and it had a few things we liked better. Hope this helps.

[Acura Sensei]

I bought a 2010 Touring 3 weeks ago here in Honolulu at the only Acura dealer on the island. After negotiations and walking out the door one night to make sure their offer was really near their lowest price, I called them back the next day and negotiated it down a further $400 over the phone. So in my case, walking out the door at around closing time (9pm) and returning the next day saved me $400. My OTD price with tax, doc, license etc... was $26,259. Tax here in Honolulu is 4.71%, so do the math. The Touring was in great condition, but shy of excellent because there was a minor paint scrape on the rear passenger corner bumper about 3 inches in size. 35k miles, carfax showed one owner with all scheduled maintence done at Honda dealership. Keep in mind that things here in Honolulu tend to be priced higher in general compared to continental US. I paid cash for the car, so I'm not sure how much that affects pricing. Maybe I got lucky, but the sales person I negotiated with made the process as friendly as you could expect in a situation like this. I can't say the same about one of the Honda dealers here that we negotiated with on a new 2013 EX-L. In the end, we decided to go with the 2010 Touring to save some money and it had a few things we liked better. Hope this helps.

That's quite a price! Was it a Honda CPO? I can guarantee that kind of price is not possible around here. I felt I had pushed them to a very good price as is. The only way to find anything near your price is if the mileage was well above 45k or 50k or if there was an accident damage and definitely not Honda CPO.