Fuel Recommendation: MMT-free gasoline
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Thread: Fuel Recommendation: MMT-free gasoline

  1. #1
    Registered User silverpilot03's Avatar
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    Exclamation You might wanna read this: Fuel Recommendation: MMT-free gasoline

    FYI (only for those who don't know yet), the fuel recommendation on the Quick Start Guide states "prolonged and consistent use of gasoline containing MMT can deteriorate your vehicle's performance, fuel economy, and the emissions control system. Always use MMT-free gasoline .... Failures caused by use of gasoline containing MMT may not be covered under warranty".
    Last edited by silverpilot03; 10-14-2004 at 06:28 AM.

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  3. #2
    alexmish
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    What is MMT ??

  4. #3
    Registered User silverpilot03's Avatar
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    Exclamation something to really watch out for

    Quick Start Guide states that it is "a manganese-based fuel additive".

    American Honda Owner Link states:

    "In general, Honda recommends that you buy gasoline from high-volume, major name-brand stations.

    To prevent the build up of deposits inside your engine and fuel system, it is important to choose fuels that contain effective detergent additives. The detergency of some US gasolines is insufficient to provide protection from such deposits. Honda recommends the use of "Top Tier Detergent Gasolines," where available. Gasoline brands with this designation meet new, voluntary standards and have demonstrated their ability to keep engines clean through a series of demanding tests. Significantly, Top Tier Detergent Gasoline does not contain MMT, a metallic additive that creates deposits in your engine and exhaust system; (see the MMT explanation below). Fuel brands that have achieved the Top Tier Detergent Gasoline designation can be identified through their marketing campaigns, and/or by fueling station signage."
    Last edited by silverpilot03; 10-14-2004 at 06:29 AM.

  5. #4
    Registered User silverpilot03's Avatar
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    Exclamation more from Honda Owner Link

    "Do not use gasoline containing MMT (Methylcyclopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl). MMT is a gasoline additive that is used by some refiners to boost octane. It contains the metal manganese. This additive contaminates your engine components and exhaust emission control system, and can lead to a significant increase in emissions and a loss in performance and fuel economy. Damage caused by the use of fuels containing MMT mat not be covered under warranty. Gasoline containing MMT is not common in the United States. It is prohibited in federal reformulated gasoline and in all California gasoline. However, MMT has been found in some fuels in the Southwest, mountain states, and the northwest area of New York State. MMT is more prevalent in gasoline sold in Canada, but lately many MMT-free fuels have become available. Regardless of location, the presence of MMT in the fuel will not be indicated on the pump, so it is important to ask your fueling station if their gasoline contains this additive. Alternatively, you may contact the customer service department of your preferred fuel brand with this question."

  6. #5
    alexmish
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    Hmm, if Honda says that, how do we know which brand to use ? As far as I believe, they all come from the same tank

    Seriously, I guess Honda does not want to name brands to avoid legal issues... But that statement is so vague - how do I, a consumer, know what brand has MMT and what does not ? This is the first time in my life I hear about MMT, and I am not even aware of any gas station posting their MMT position somewhere on the pump.... Do they ?

  7. #6
    alexmish
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    Also, every 6 months, I buy once of those fuel injection cleaners and poor them in the full fuel tank. Probably that is why my engine is still running as quiet and smooth as when it was brand new.

  8. #7
    Registered User silverpilot03's Avatar
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    Just thought I'd let you all nice people to carefully read Honda's recommendations and heed the warning as this particular additive allegedly has serious detrimental effects on car engines (I'm assuming from all manufacturers, correct me if I'm wrong). Also it turns out that MMT is also allegedly harmful to the environment and ultimately affects our health too.

  9. #8
    Registered User Odyn t'Wanderer's Avatar
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    MMT

    In Canada, both Shell and Sunoco are MMT-free as of January '04. PetroCanada still uses it in some areas, and do not make it easy to find out where.

    A major study in 2002 confirmed the concerns with the MMT fuel
    additive.

    Excerpted from an article by Jim Kerr:
    "Over 30 papers have been published by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) on MMT fuel additives. Many of these have indicated MMT increased tailpipe emissions, spark plug fouling, catalyst damage and impairment of On Board Diagnostic systems. While it is claimed these studies were not of enough depth to indicate accurate results, the latest study released in 2002 has the statistical controls and research methods to accurately determine the effects on MMT additive on vehicle emissions.

    Conducted jointly by the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, the Association of International Automobile Manufacturers and the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association, this eight million dollar study is the most comprehensive study on the effects of MMT on vehicle emissions to date.

    The test used 56 vehicles from 6 major automotive manufacturers. Side by side testing was performed on two pairs of matched vehicles, with half of the vehicles using fuel with MMT additive and the others without MMT. Emission levels were tested several times during the evaluation program, during which the vehicles accumulated up to 160,000 kilometres. A total of 5,840,000 kilometres were driven during the six year test.

    Between 4000 and 50,000 miles, MMT fuelled vehicles had hydrocarbon emissions averaging 13% higher than non-MMT fuelled vehicles. CO was about 6% higher but NOx was reduced by 10%. Spark plugs in two of the test vehicles fuelled with MMT misfired to the point of turning on the Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL). Evaluation of the plugs by Delphi, the plug manufacturer, found that reddish brown deposits were on the tips of the plugs exposed to MMT. Delphi theorised that the manganese oxide deposits on the plugs are conductive under high heat, causing the plugs to track down the insulator and misfire. Several other vehicles also experienced sparkplug misfires but not severe enough to turn on the MIL.

    Fuel economy tests were also performed during the study. City fuel economy for vehicles using fuel with MMT were consistently lower than for vehicles not using MMT. The difference at 15,000 miles was .35 mpg U.S. and increased to .48 mpg U.S at 35,000 miles. Highway fuel economy was lowered by .2 mpg U.S. This is a significant reduction in economy over the life of an automobile."

  10. #9
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    I'm using Sunoco gas (87) for 5 years for my old 2000 Ody EX.
    But it had EGR problem in 2004.
    Fortunately Honda extended the EGR warranty upto 8 years.
    Anyway, still using Sunoco, though I heard that Ultra 94 is the only one without MMT.

    I'm not sure Sunoco's are all MMT-free,,,

  11. #10
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    Angry MMT

    If anyone knows or has a friend in the oil/fuel industry can you scold them for me. Currently, most of the oil companies are on the top of the Fortune 100 companies and are still cheap bastards trying to squeeze out more profits by adding MMT/manganese based additives in gasoline. Besides the study as noted above it is widely known that this metal additive is not good for automotive engines and is toxic for peoples' health, similar to lead in gasoline. I Googled MMT and low and behold ETHYL CORPORATION a US company that used to produce lead in the US is now producing the manganese additive and trying to export it, as the demand for lead is getting lower worlwide. A friend in the government told me the MMT is very low volumes in the US, but higher volumes in Canada, where Canada is afraid of getting sued by ETHYL, if they take any action. Sounds like ETHYL has more attorneys employed than engineers/scientists to continue their business.

    The main problem of any metal based additive again is that it is very toxic for people who breathe air and contaminates the catalytic converter of our cars. I guess Honda is just trying to protect themselves in case all our converters start failing. I don't blame HONDA for taking a proactive step, but ourselves and our government for allowing this to happen. We should let the law makers/congress know to ban MMT from gasoline in the US and Canada.
    Last edited by ChevyChase; 04-04-2006 at 09:11 PM.
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  12. #11
    had
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    does anyone know of brands in the us that use mmt? if it is added to the gas is it posted?
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  13. #12
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    When top gas co start giving me free gas like Giant Eagle...I'll go there....

    The 87 Low Teir I use in my GTO that needs 93 Gets great mpg and runs like day one.
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  14. #13
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    MMT free gas retailers

    TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is a recently established new standard for gasoline performance. Four of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance.

    Since the minimum additive performance standards were first established by EPA in 1995, most gasoline marketers have actually reduced the concentration level of detergent additive in their gasoline by up to 50%. As a result, the ability of a vehicle to maintain stringent Tier 2 emission standards have been hampered, leading to engine deposits which can have a big impact on in-use emissions and driver satisfaction.

    These automakers have raised the bar. TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline help drivers avoid lower quality gasoline which can leave deposits on critical engine parts, which reduces engine performance. Thats something both drivers and automakers want to avoid.

    http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

    http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html

    I hope above information will answer your question. My Honda dealership doesn't even now about the MMT.
    Last edited by junktl; 05-12-2006 at 04:02 PM.

  15. #14
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    Re: MMT free gas retailers

    It's very helpful info, junktl.
    Appreciate it.

    I wish most canadian gas companies meet the TOP TIER standard as soon as possible.
    Especially MMT must be gone from gasoline.

    Originally posted by junktl
    TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is a recently established new standard for gasoline performance. Four of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance.

    Since the minimum additive performance standards were first established by EPA in 1995, most gasoline marketers have actually reduced the concentration level of detergent additive in their gasoline by up to 50%. As a result, the ability of a vehicle to maintain stringent Tier 2 emission standards have been hampered, leading to engine deposits which can have a big impact on in-use emissions and driver satisfaction.

    These automakers have raised the bar. TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline help drivers avoid lower quality gasoline which can leave deposits on critical engine parts, which reduces engine performance. Thats something both drivers and automakers want to avoid.

    http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

    http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html

    I hope above information will solve your question. My Honda dealership doesn't even now about the MMT.

  16. #15
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    And what fuel additive do you guys suggest? I want to make sure my Ody runs as smooth as the day we got it.

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