Slightly OT - Auto Store Battery Drain Test - Page 3
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Thread: Slightly OT - Auto Store Battery Drain Test

  1. #31
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    Most cars have drain back valves in the fuel system to prevent loss of fuel pressure once the vehicle is shut down and certainly overnight.

    Long cranking times are an indication of the fuel pump filling the lines and building up fuel pressure. You might want to check fuel pressure when the car is cold and before you start it.

    Also, it sounds like the tach wire is for shutting down the starter after the van starts, and has nothing to do with how long it takes to start.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by marvinstockman View Post
    Most cars have drain back valves in the fuel system to prevent loss of fuel pressure once the vehicle is shut down and certainly overnight.

    Long cranking times are an indication of the fuel pump filling the lines and building up fuel pressure. You might want to check fuel pressure when the car is cold and before you start it.

    Also, it sounds like the tach wire is for shutting down the starter after the van starts, and has nothing to do with how long it takes to start.
    I'm not sure why you have brought up symptoms related to "long cranking times". I don't believe I've ever mentioned that the vehicle cranks for a long time. In fact, all along I've said that it only takes 3-4 cranks (1-2 seconds) to start.

    The issue is that the remote start - without the tach wire in play - only sends out a very short pulse. Shorter than a normal key turn. That is why the installer added a tach wire.

    We'll see what happens after the car has been sitting in the cold for a few hours.
    Current Ody: 2006 EX-L, 118K and climbing
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  4. #33
    Registered User John Clark's Avatar
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    If it didn't have the tach wire installed then I'm sure that adding it will fix it up. As engines wear and age they may crank a little longer than when new. 3-4 cranks isn't a long crank time in my book, especially when it's cold outside (yes, 23F is cold!)
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  6. #34
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    OK, here's the latest...

    I spoke to the installer about a 1/2 hour before I went to pick up the car. Since he knew I was on the way, he tested the remote start one more time before I got there, so the car was already running and warm when I got there. I shut it down, hit the start button and, of course, it started right up after just a crank or 2.

    When I got home, I left it running and tested the battery with a Fluke 75 multi-meter: 13.61V

    Next, I shut it down and monitored the voltage. Over the next couple of minutes it decreased to 12.10, with a rapid drop at the start and then a slow decline. By the time it got down to 12.6, it was taking a couple of seconds to decrease 0.1V each time. By the time it got to 12.10 it had slowed to such as extent that I stopped monitoring it.

    The car spent the next 12 hours sitting in temps that were in the low to mid 20's F.

    Before starting it this morning, I checked the voltage: 11.71V. The battery is approximately 15 months old. Yes, that low voltage concerns me.

    While monitoring the voltage I pressed the start button. At 11.71V, I sort of expected a slow crank, but I was surprised to hear a very strong 2-3 cranks and the car started. None of the "1 -2 cranks, pause, 1 -2 cranks, then start" symptoms that I was getting before the tach wire was installed. The voltage dropped to about 9.5V while cranking and then jumped to 13.65V once it was running.

    I let it run for about 10 minutes and then shut it down.

    1 hour later (still at 24°F) I checked the battery voltage: 11.85V. I hit the button and the car started with just 2-3 strong cranks.

    While I am concerned about the low (11.71V) voltage, the starting issue may have been resolved with the addition of the tach wire. I'll be monitoring the voltage over the next few days, although the forecast calls for low 50's (50's!) over then few days. It'll be interesting to see what the car does.
    Current Ody: 2006 EX-L, 118K and climbing
    Former Ody:
    t2004 LX, 160K and holdingt

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  7. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by davedrivesody View Post
    Without the tach wire, I don't see how the remote starter would know that the engine has started. I suspect it relies on the starter's overruning clutch to bridge the gap between engine start and 6 seconds. If so, that would be tough on the starter clutch.

    Dave
    I asked the installer about this when I picked up the car. Without getting too technical, it works something like this:

    When the vehicle is off, the Remote Start System (RSS) is sitting idle, kept alive by an always hot 12V line. It's basically just waiting for a signal from the fob. Once it receives that signal, it starts running its program and attempts to start the car. Once the car starts, the RSS expects to see other signals from the ECU and also begins to monitor the brake pedal, ignition switch, alarm system, etc. Part of the initial "start the car" programming is to set up a timer that says "If I don't see all of the signals I expect within X amount of time, the car must not be running. Let me try to start it again."

    Included in that programming is what I'll refer to as a "3-strike relay". In other words, the RSS keeps track of how many times it has tried to start the vehicle. If it doesn't start after 3 (4?) attempts, it gives up.

    So, the purpose of the tach line is not required by the RSS to determine if the car is running or not, it's an optional way for the RSS to determine if the car is running as well as a means to extend the crank time when the situation warrants it.

    BTW...the term "3 strike relay" comes from my days as a transmitter tech in the USCG. The 3 strike relay was device that measured approximately 6" x 6". Mounted on backer board was a timer, a small motor and a 4 position cam. I thought it was a pretty cool device. Here is how it worked:

    The transmitters I worked on had an big, motor driven circuit breaker built into the 15KV-DC power supply. If something inside the transmitter caused the breaker to trip, the small motor on the 3 strike relay would move the cam one position and start the timer. It would then send a signal to the circuit breaker's motor which would drive the breaker to the On position and power up the transmitter again. If the breaker tripped within the next minute, the 3 strike would move the cam one more position and tell the circuit breaker's motor to reset the breaker again. If the breaker tripped a third time within that same minute, the 3 strike would move the cam one more position and the entire transmitter would be shut down. Thus the name "3 strike relay". However, if the timer counted down to zero after seeing only 1 or 2 trips, it would reset it's cam to the normal operating position and sit patiently waiting for the next breaker trip to begin it's 3 strike cycle again.

    In the case of the RSS, that "3 strike relay" action is obviously done programmatically, without the use of physical timers. motors and cams.
    Current Ody: 2006 EX-L, 118K and climbing
    Former Ody:
    t2004 LX, 160K and holdingt

    Hidden Content

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    2003 Element EX AWD 81K

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