Brake judder: new brakes all around.....
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Thread: Brake judder: new brakes all around.....

  1. #1
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    Brake judder: new brakes all around.....

    No shortage of threads on the subject, but I wanted to post this since I have some questions answered already.

    1. put new rotors and pads all the way around last week.

    2. did the break-in as in the paperwork, and everything was fine.

    3. drove for 2 days (but never really got to interstate speeds).

    4. went on a road trip last week and the first time I was at 70 and had to brake.....judder.


    I had an alignment before leaving, and aside from the guy mentioning the caster was a little more right than he'd like (but within all tolerances and not going to cause tire wear) there were no problems.


    I plan on taking all the rotors off today and re-seating them to make sure they are all seating properly.

    I used the phillips set screws on all of them to make sure that they were even when I put things back on. Maybe i missed one. Definitely feels like the front end.


    Questions:

    1. calipers? They compressed fine with the spreader when going back on. No real trouble. But I'm wondering if they are not retracting properly?

    2. pins? I cleaned and greased them. Could any air trapped the boot I may have missed cause this?

    3. warped rotors? I just got them out of the box from power stop (via Amazon). Is it often you get fresh from the box and they are warped?


    I had planned on changing out the calipers anyway just to slowly swap out the major components. Maybe if the re-seating of rotors doesn't do it I'll go that way.


    Last question:

    Because I experienced the judder: Does this mean I've now warped the rotors? I made sure to allow the vehicle to slow to 'non-judder' speeds before breaking while out this week.


    thanks to all as always.

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  3. #2
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    Have you adjusted the emergency brake pads inside the new rear rotors
    2005 EXL

  4. #3
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    Dragging brakes?

    Get out on the road, and before pulsated starts, pull over and check the wheels to see if one of them is much hotter than the others. Note, fronts are normally hotter than the backs.

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  6. #4
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    It may or may not matter in this case, but you should include the year and trim level of your Ody either in your signature block or in the body of your post.
    Current Ody: 2006 EX-L, 118K and climbing
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    t2004 LX, 160K and holdingt

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  7. #5
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    Ok, added the info to the signature. Thanks for that.

    I haven't fooled with the e-brake pads at all. I got my hands on a dial indicator to use this afternoon to have a look. Got busy with other errands since this morning.
    2007 EX-L
    120k miles
    SE TX area

  8. #6
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    https://youtu.be/IUI8YiMX1X8L
    This shows how to adjust e brakes to prevent dragging
    2005 EXL

  9. #7
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    Front right in the dial indicator was only about .002" out of true. Checking the front left now.

  10. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dornier View Post
    Front right in the dial indicator was only about .002" out of true. Checking the front left now.
    the left was .001'.

    i think the max is .0006" allowed per my manual.


    was gonna check the abs sensor but the 10mm broke off during unwinding and shows corrosion.

    not going to fool with the left yet.

    such judder in the steering wheel makes me think caliper and not e brakes.
    2007 EX-L
    120k miles
    SE TX area

  11. #9
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    You won't feel judder or pulsation below .010".

    .002" or less is excellent.

    I would.be looking at your suspension components. Include struts and upper mount.

  12. #10
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    Normally I would consider those things too, except I had all that changed out some time ago. Zero problems. I mean, I swapped rotors and pads, and two days later I get 65+ judder on the highway.

    could the guide pins do something like this? Specifically, the rear? I didn't change the front as they moved more freely and smoothy than the rear. The rear would stick when depressed. So, I cleaned and re-greased. I may have trapped too much air or created a vacuum.
    2007 EX-L
    120k miles
    SE TX area

  13. #11
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    Check and adjust if needed the ebrake pads so they don't drag your rear rotors using a screwdriver in the rotor grommeted hole.
    2005 EXL

  14. #12
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    On it. gimme a few minutes
    2007 EX-L
    120k miles
    SE TX area

  15. #13
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    In my opinion, caliper would not cause brake pulsation issues you are experiencing.

    1. Where do you feel vibration? Steering wheel (front brakes) or driver seat (rear brakes)?
    2. What is the state of compliance bushings on front LCA?
    3. Most important, did you clean hub faces when you installed new rotors?
    4. Apparently you perform disk runout test, did you perform it on multiple spots on the rotor? Inside and outside?

    I will tell you two stories.
    One, my own car - 05 Ody, installed a brand new set of Centric front rotors. Car shuddered like crazy. Bought a HF runout measuring tool,
    found brand new rotor had crazy runout. Rotors replaced, life back to normal.

    Customers car - 07 Ody, brake shudder caused front brake job. Still shuddering after brake replacement. Pulled out HF runout tool, checked out all
    rotors (front and back), found nothing out of ordinary. Replaced front rotors with another set, no change. Out of desperation swapped out
    rear rotors between my own Ody and customers. Shudder is gone!

    Lessons learned. There is difference in vibration between front and rear rotors being out of true. Runout tool takes skill and experience to use.
    You are suppose to take multiple measurements on both inner and outer surface. You have to remove caliper to measure inner surface.
    Brand new rotors can be bad out of the box. IIRC, spec calls for up to 0.005" of runout.
    Not cleaning your hub could trap pieces of old rotor on the face of the hub, causing new rotors to sit uneven, showing exact same symptom as
    "warped rotor".
    Finally, if your compliance bushings are shot, it could potentially cause the control arm to excessively move causing shudder. I would put this
    as the last potential culprit on the list.
    Silver/Grey 2005 Odyssey EXL R&N
    White 2009 Maxima SV Premium & Tech

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  16. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxud View Post
    In my opinion, caliper would not cause brake pulsation issues you are experiencing.

    1. Where do you feel vibration? Steering wheel (front brakes) or driver seat (rear brakes)?
    Steering wheel only. Nothing in the pedal.


    2. What is the state of compliance bushings on front LCA?
    Brand new. I replaced the entire arm(s) last winter.

    3. Most important, did you clean hub faces when you installed new rotors?
    I did, but it's possible I didn't do a good job.

    4. Apparently you perform disk runout test, did you perform it on multiple spots on the rotor? Inside and outside?
    I only did the outer side. One spot. Used the strut as a point for the magnet. Had the dial placed at the 12 o'clock position. Didn't see the need to test multiple locations since it was within .0002.


    I'm going to pull them all and check the rears, but I'm still leaning toward stuck caliper(s).


    Still looking for an answer if guide pins can cause this (steering wheel only judder).
    Last edited by Dornier; 03-21-2017 at 10:15 AM.
    2007 EX-L
    120k miles
    SE TX area

  17. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dornier View Post
    Steering wheel only. Nothing in the pedal.

    Brand new. I replaced the entire arm last winter.

    I did, but it's possible I didn't do a good job.

    I only did the outer side. One spot. Used the strut as a point for the magnet. Had the dial placed at the 12 o'clock position. Didn't see the need to test multiple locations since it was within .0002.

    I'm going to pull them all and check the rears, but I'm still leaning toward stuck caliper(s).

    Still looking for an answer if guide pins can cause this (steering wheel only judder).
    ok, so its definitely related to front rotors.
    I am not going to keep repeating myself. Caliper has nothing to do with your problem. Caliper guide pins do nothing but let the caliper float.
    The amount of pressure you apply to the system via brake pedal/booster will overcome any and all caliper pin funkyness.
    Emergency brakes got nothing to do with this either.

    Clean hub faces, make sure you see shiny metal all around. Get wirewheel or metal brush, you can use drill with wirewheel.
    Make sure there is nothing stuck to the back of the rotor hub facing surface.
    If the hub faces are clean, you have a problem with one of your rotors. Doubt two rotors would be bad.
    To skip lots of testing, go to your local autozone/advance auto and buy one new front rotor.
    Install it on one side, then another. This could be less time wasting than performing all the runout tests by the book.
    You did not perform the runout test correctly. Like I said, you need to do 3 spots on each surface (inner, center, outer circumference spots),
    its in your service manual. A problem can be on inner or outer surface. The tolerances are so low, you will never be able to visually identify the problem.
    Silver/Grey 2005 Odyssey EXL R&N
    White 2009 Maxima SV Premium & Tech

    RIP: Dark Green 1995 Nissan Maxima SE - deer collision

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