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DePax - The Right Way! - Detailed How-To Article

602K views 884 replies 311 participants last post by  signal34 
#1 · (Edited)
I didn't want this information to get buried in another topic thread so I've created a new topic thread as well with a direct link to the article:

http://www.planet-9.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=220

Enjoy and stand by for tomorrow's article update!


Moderator Edit:
Based on later discussions and information by folks who dePax for a living, it has been discovered that the washer mentioned in the article is NOT needed. Please do your research before looking for or using that washer. :)

Author Edit:
If you want to break the internal plastic retaining ring on your TPMS sensors then go ahead, but ask yourself WHY weren't these broken on the original set of PAX wheels? If they weren't broken from Honda when you go the car, why are you breaking them now? Choice is yours, but the washer allows you to install exactly as they were installed on the original PAX wheels from the factory.
 
#2 · (Edited)
KSKruzer said:
I didn't want this information to get buried in another topic thread so I've created a new topic thread as well with a direct link to the article:

http://www.planet-9.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=220

Enjoy and stand by for tomorrow's article update!
Good job. Unfortunately, this too will get buried in numerous posts unless a Mod Locks it and stickies it.

So, lets petition the mods to sticky it up top and delete junk posts like mine.

:)
 
#6 ·
I wonder if this also might apply to the RL wheels?

[I just got RL wheels earlier this week in preparation for depaxing]

Any ideas about the best place to get TPMS's? Does anyone here sell them at decent prices (decent meaning $120+shipping for 4 of them)?

What about tires? I was thinking of getting Michelins at Costco, but I am not sure if they have the right size in a 102 load rating. Unfortunately, their website doesn't allow search by tire, only by vehicle, and I don't know what vehicles use 235/60R17 tires. Also, I've been quite disappointed by the tire sales company (like tiresplus.com, etc) websites.
 
#8 ·
KaliOdy said:
Per the majorities request, post has been labeled "sticky." :p How you guys doing?
Doing good. Please lock the post too or else it will get humongus with folks asking repeat quetions as the other PAX threads have gotten.

:)
 
#9 ·
markr33 said:
I wonder if this also might apply to the RL wheels?

[I just got RL wheels earlier this week in preparation for depaxing]

Any ideas about the best place to get TPMS's? Does anyone here sell them at decent prices (decent meaning $120+shipping for 4 of them)?

What about tires? I was thinking of getting Michelins at Costco, but I am not sure if they have the right size in a 102 load rating. Unfortunately, their website doesn't allow search by tire, only by vehicle, and I don't know what vehicles use 235/60R17 tires. Also, I've been quite disappointed by the tire sales company (like tiresplus.com, etc) websites.
I got all my parts from http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/. The TPMS sensor is about $32 each.
 
#797 ·
7/16" hole AN washer. If you can't find them locally, large racer supply houses(Jegs, etc) have them in bulk(boxes of 20-50), and in stainless steel.
thank you for this info - I had weeks looking for the washers and found them on ebay "JEGS Performance Products 82103 7/16" Stainless Steel AN Washers"
 
#17 ·
I'm in the middle of Depaxing with MDX wheels. After reading this post, I was worried about the fitment of my Honda sensors in the MDX wheels. When I ordered from College Hills Honda, they volunteered that when installing the sensors, the nut would appear to get tight, but that I should "continue past that point" and that the nut would continue to tighten down until the sensor was snugly mounted. I just did all 4 last night, and their instructions were spot-on. They were right that you can seem to tighten the nut competely, and the sensor is still loose. After continuing to tighten the nut, it went past the "tight spot" and snugged down nicely. I'm not sure if its a self locking feature or what, but it worked great with no washers.
 
#18 ·
pkadhr said:
I'm in the middle of Depaxing with MDX wheels. After reading this post, I was worried about the fitment of my Honda sensors in the MDX wheels. When I ordered from College Hills Honda, they volunteered that when installing the sensors, the nut would appear to get tight, but that I should "continue past that point" and that the nut would continue to tighten down until the sensor was snugly mounted. I just did all 4 last night, and their instructions were spot-on. They were right that you can seem to tighten the nut competely, and the sensor is still loose. After continuing to tighten the nut, it went past the "tight spot" and snugged down nicely. I'm not sure if its a self locking feature or what, but it worked great with no washers.
You've learned from the pros, right on. Thanks for the info.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Attaching an image that may be of importance... the new TPMS I bought have the part that tightens down with an o-ring inside that is attached to the walls. Looking at the new wheels I bought, one of them had the stem and I removed it and the inside had the o-ring but it was broken down and touching the bottom. Thus, if you tighten them hand tight, you'll feel them the new ones stop at that point, but if you are able to tighten them down further that ring snaps and you can get them snug.

Now, I'm not sure if that's intentional or not, and if the washer method is still needed on some rims, and/or which is better, just wanted to share.

I'll note that I had a nut driver and tried tightening past the factory stop and couldn't, I had to use a wrench. This leads to another issue, the tpms stem will start to turn/tighten down as well and I'm not sure if the tpms would get damaged before that inside o-ring gives. Fortunately I had that extra stem so I used a wrench to hold one end while tightening down the other until the ring inside snapped and then took it off, and assembled the TPMS.

Using a wrench on the good sensor stem is not a good idea as the end is likely to get damaged. Thus, I don't know if this helps or not.

[Edit] Will note that the OP points this out in the link above, so, the question still stands is it supposed to break or not? Given that the other two on my rims were broken in and I head from a honda dealer as well, I suspect it's OK. If anyone is paranoid I suppose it might be worth calling Schrader/Manuf and getting their input.[/edit]
Schrader TPMS
 

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#20 · (Edited)
Attached are two of the nuts from the TPMS, the left is one that was already installed with the (broken stop collar / o-ring) seated at the bottom. The right is brand new out of the bag with the in-tact collar affixed mid-way down the barrell. As per above, it appears that the ring needs to be snapped during installation to get proper seating, but, this is just a guess of mine based on what I've seen. As to the best way to get the torque to do that without damaging the TPMS, I can't say.

[edit] I was on the phone ordering a spare tire from honda and the person I spoke to said the above was how they do it, tighten, then it snaps and feels loose, and then tighten again until it's snug. [/edit]

[Edit]
posted by pizzle
I found the following publication while surfing the 'net for information. TRW manufactures the sensors used on the Touring Ody.

www.entire-solution.com/English/images/Honda Sensor Adj Angle Manual Mount.pdf

Note the reference to the "Break away flange" on page 3 and the detailed steps on pages 6-8 of the document.

I know that 99% of the folks out there broke the inner collar during their install, but some wondered whether or not this was "as-designed" behavior. This publication seems to finally put that question to rest.
Awesome, thanks!
 

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#21 · (Edited)
Tire Size Comparison Chart... someone may want to doublecheck my math. Used TireRack info to compare against the PAX size.
Edit: I'm pretty sure I had the speed @ 65MPH backwards, larger tire should equte to a higher speed all else equal. The % difference is/was fine, just the actual speed vs the speedometer was backwards. If I've got it wrong now though, let me know and I'll reverse the change.

Keep in mind the tire load rating should be reviewed as well, I think stock is 104T.
 

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#22 · (Edited)
pkadhr said:
I'm in the middle of Depaxing with MDX wheels. After reading this post, I was worried about the fitment of my Honda sensors in the MDX wheels. When I ordered from College Hills Honda, they volunteered that when installing the sensors, the nut would appear to get tight, but that I should "continue past that point" and that the nut would continue to tighten down until the sensor was snugly mounted. I just did all 4 last night, and their instructions were spot-on. They were right that you can seem to tighten the nut competely, and the sensor is still loose. After continuing to tighten the nut, it went past the "tight spot" and snugged down nicely. I'm not sure if its a self locking feature or what, but it worked great with no washers.
Another satisfied DEPAXER! Great job! Welcome to the club!

... and for those of you that still want to DEPAX, PM me for info or email me at tncjones@sbcglobal.net

I have several sets that are Bolt on ready! I also have several sets of TPMS and rims also!
 
#23 ·
pkadhr said:
I'm in the middle of Depaxing with MDX wheels. After reading this post, I was worried about the fitment of my Honda sensors in the MDX wheels. When I ordered from College Hills Honda, they volunteered that when installing the sensors, the nut would appear to get tight, but that I should "continue past that point" and that the nut would continue to tighten down until the sensor was snugly mounted. I just did all 4 last night, and their instructions were spot-on. They were right that you can seem to tighten the nut competely, and the sensor is still loose. After continuing to tighten the nut, it went past the "tight spot" and snugged down nicely. I'm not sure if its a self locking feature or what, but it worked great with no washers.
What you did was crack the internal stop collar, its just made of plastics, so by forcing it what you do is crack it which allows the stem to go on up further into the nut. While this "might" not have any long-term detriments, if you pull one of your sensors off and inspect it, you'll see the broken inner collar. If the collar wasn't supposed to be there then why did Honda craft the part that way? The answer is they crafted it to fit a particular way on a particular wheel, when you try to use the part on a different wheel if it doesn't fit snugly then you should be using a washer so it fits as designed, not cracking the inner retaining collar to "make it work". The inner collar is also designed as a failsafe to prevent over-tightening of the TPMS unit. The design engineers figured that if the installed heard/felt a crack they'd know that they did something wrong and would stop to inspect their work and find the cracked collar alerting them to the fact the that unit had been over-tightened and could possibly be damaged due to overtightening. The engineers didn't design it for the Acura wheels but for the PAX wheels so when it gets used on a different stem design / wheel combo you have the choice of either cracking the internal collar to make it fit, or using a washer to make it work as intended. Unfortunately the so-called techs at College Hills Honda seem to be clueless in this regard.

As I said, cracking the collar might not have any detrimental effects long term, but if there is such an easy and correct solution (use a washer) then why not do it? The only reason not to do it is laziness. If people want to be lazy, that's up to them...
 
#24 ·
Well, I guess the two positions are fairly clearlly defined now. I don't know who's right though. We need someone to measure the thickness of the wheel at the valvestem mount. Also would be interesting to measure the protrusion of the valve stem thru the nut on Pax wheels v.s. MDX wheels (with honda sensors). My only comfort at this point is that when I installed the sensors, tightening past the initial turn down felt more like hitting a lockng feature, that "breaking" the nutring. The nuts got harder to turn but not unreasonable so, and didnt necessarily "free up" after hitting the ring point. Someones right here, I just dont think either of us knows enough at this point to be sure.

It also just occured to me that after hitting the "tight point" the nut turned down quite a bit more than would be accounted for by an .06" or so washer.

It's also possible that the ring in the nut is there to aid in high volume OEM manufacturing techniques - so that they can be installed with a air wrench but not over tightened. If thats true we can install ours and go past that point as long as we dont over torque the nuts.
 
#25 ·
Well, the RL wheels I had purchased came with 2 sensors installed already. They had the stop collar broken already. The 2 new sensors I purchased from Acura for the RL wheels are the same part # as the ODY. Neither came with washers. I didn't see any mention of that in the TPMS training videos on Schraders website, but it may be a Honda OEM issue. I emailed Schrader support the question last week but haven't heard anything back, I suspect I may never [I'm not a qualified technician or affiliated with any company]. The TPMS valve stems are supposed to be replaced at each tire change (According to Schrader training videos / service kit info) so I'll request that be done at the next change and hopefully that'll alleviate any worries about part fatigue. If I had washers, I'd make sure they were inspected so either way is probably safe, just something to keep in mind.

On the plus side, I had tires mounted on the RL Rims today and all 4 sensors (2 new, 2 Original) linked up after a couple minutes (no errors). Tire pressure has stayed stable (no leaks) thus far. Ride is a bit better, but haven't gotten up to HWY speeds yet. Tire noise is noticeably worse (but not bad). Also have the spare tire mounted in the trunk so I'm officially depaxed.

Now I just have to decide if I want to hang on to PAX for any warranty or trade-in concerns or get rid of them and free up the space. I'll keep 'em for a few months to make sure everything is working out well and decide then. Thanks to all for the research, I was quite worried about all the possible headaches going this route but it was rather painless. Now as long as the Mrs doesn't hate the new ride (or get a flat any time soon) I'll be all set.
 
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