Interesting info on Bosch Oil Filter (OEM vs Wix vs Bosch) - Page 3
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Thread: Interesting info on Bosch Oil Filter (OEM vs Wix vs Bosch)

  1. #31
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    the quick answer to the guts of Bosch v. WIX is to look at their admittedly propaganda laden websites. My work web browser is not supported on the bosch site but going here should show you their filter breakdown. The WIX site has their exploded filter and the thing that strikes me the most (when compared with CNNs photo of a dissected bosch) is bosch's flimsy spring and bypass valve. WIX uses a coil spring which holds even pressure. The bypass valve on a WIX is also in the front of the filter so that if it is used, it does not wash the contaminants out of the filter media and back into the engine. So, in these 2 ways, I find the EIX superior. Again, as I noted in an earlier post, any of these aftermarket filters is better than OEM so I'm sure the Bosch v. WIX debate is more intellectual than pragmatic.

    NOTE: I think I'm coming off as banging the WIX drum loudly and I probably am. I like them and have dissected a few filters to conclude (without scientific measurement or using the scientific method at any step) that Wix has a superior product that was designed better than their competition. That is purely my opinion and I could be wrong. I have no affiliation with WIX or any other automotive part manufacturer and ultimately I'm not invested in the brand of filter you install. I'm just sharing my findings and opinion. Sorry if I'm coming off too strongly. I'm used to much more active forums with thousands of members so I apologize if I'm perceived as hyjacking this thread.

    s

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  3. #32
    cnn
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    For those who have some free time, this thread shows the "inner working" of a Bosch 3323 filter, including the Bypass Valve Design (Spring Leaf design):

    BOSCH PREMIUM 3323 CUT OPEN -- PICTURES - Bob Is The Oil Guy
    cnn: 2007 Odyssey LX

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnn View Post
    kenny,

    The Bosch 3323 is exactly the same as 5 years ago.
    Thanks!

    I got one as a package deal with an oil change special I bought a couple months ago. It is sitting on the shelf and I was debating just returning it and getting something else.

    I normally use the Purolator Pure One series or the WIX/Napa Gold

    the only filter I really avoid 100% is Fram.

    I can't say I have ever had a 'problem' with any oil filter, but I am always confused when people say "I use xyz filter and I have never had a problem" How would you know? I mean unless the failure was catastrophic (like fram has had happen) and the filter failure caused an immediate engine failure.

    I wish there was really a trusted science behind how good a filter really is, everything that is out there seems to be opinion / speculation. Not really sure who is right or wrong.

    On previous cars, I have used nothing but OEM (Toyota, Honda, Nissan mostly) and in 100,000's of thousands of miles over those cars, I never had one burn oil and never had any failures. Not so sure that means anything though

    My current camry spent 60k miles of it's life on the Purolator classic filters (I scored about 40 of them for 99 cents each) and they seemed fine. My old RAV4 used the same exact filter, and the rav lived for 100,000 on them and never burned oil or had any issues. I like certain filters over others, but price will almost always win with me (except Fram)


    As a side note, I have used MANN air filters for a long time and never had any issues with them that I was aware of, but again, how would you know and how cold you tell? (I am not paying for oil analysis every oil change)

    I would try those MANN oil filters from AA if the price stays that low. I have a bunch of Pure One filters right now that I got cheap after rebate that I need to use up first.
    2007 EX-L

  5. #34
    Super Moderator dvpatel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smtippin View Post
    Just found DVPATEL's link to the supertech filter.
    ** SNIP **
    Whoa. DVPATEL's link? I merely mentioned the thread as it had the cut outs. I did not do any research/cutting etc. I had used a couple of STs but then got into a Mobil 1 price error on Amazon and have 10+ Mobil 1 filters @ cost price of $2.50 each. Besides, you are too late for the Wally world special bashing as most wallys do NOT carry it any more any way.

    Also, you pulled up a post from back in 2009 and the sentiment then was that the ST was better than the changed crappy Honda OEMs and was definitely better than the even more crappier Nissan OEMs. Also, your sentence below proves that at one point the STs were regarded a good filter as my post was back from early 2009 and the thread I had linked was actually from 2007.

    Quote Originally Posted by smtippin View Post
    I do know, however, that many motorcycle forums talk about the US made ST filter from about 08 and older as being stellar, but the new ones are crap.
    Last edited by dvpatel; 07-19-2012 at 08:31 PM.
    When I use this smilie ===> I am NOT calling you stupid.

    The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.

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    ..... Tranny strarted slipping only 8,414 miles after the replacemnt.
    ..... 2nd tranny replacement 9/21/2009 @ 76,659 miles.
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  6. #35
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    dvpatel,
    I'm sorry man, I'm not trying in any way to bash you or tell you that you're wrong in any way. I didn't mean to make you defensive. I read your post, had an update, and thought a forum was a safe place to share.

    Didn't mean to step on your toes, sheesh.
    s

  7. #36
    cnn
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnn View Post
    For those who have some free time, this thread shows the "inner working" of a Bosch 3323 filter, including the Bypass Valve Design (Spring Leaf design):

    BOSCH PREMIUM 3323 CUT OPEN -- PICTURES - Bob Is The Oil Guy
    The filter in that link is about 5,100 miles.

    For those who want to go extended interval such as 8K-10K miles, I think they should replace the oil filter itself (without changing the oil) halfway through. This is because the filtering element slowly clogs up with contaminants and eventually clogged up, then the Bypass Valve opens, allowing unfilered oil to pass through.
    Different things have different useful lifespans:

    - Oil Filter: maybe around 5K-6K miles.

    - Engine Oil: maybe 6K-10K miles (I don't want to get into this argument lol).

    If people ask me, then I would say I change my oil/oil filter every 5K-6K miles (50-50 mix of city/hwy driving style). At the next oil change at (6K miles), I will carefully open the oil filter through the cap (w/o touching the Bypass Valve) to see if the Bypass Valve is opened after 6K miles. So stay tuned!
    cnn: 2007 Odyssey LX

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnn View Post
    I think they should replace the oil filter itself (without changing the oil) halfway through.
    I agree with statement 100%, simply because there isn't enough scientific research or information out there that really tells us how far our oil filter will go. You also get the added benefit of having to 'top off' the oil when you change out the filter, that little extra bit of oil helps to replenish the additive pack.

    I am going to assume filter details just don't matter that much because plenty of cars have gone 300,000 + miles on OEM filters made in china

    The Quaker State 300,000 mile warranty makes no detailed claims about oil filters

    Motor Oil, Transmission Fluids & Synthetic Oil | Quaker State



    I think we are all confident that filters can go 3000 miles How far past that will they run effectively?

    I usually change the Ody when the MM goes off, for me that is about 6000 miles. I am just making a HUGE ASSUMPTION that my filter is ok going that far

    or I am really just assuming that it just doesn't matter....
    2007 EX-L

  9. #38
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    Ironically, Honda disagrees as if I am not mistaken they (MM) recommend the filter change every other oil change. Go figure. I change my filter with every oil change.
    When I use this smilie ===> I am NOT calling you stupid.

    The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.

    2007 EX-L R&N, Slate Green with Olive (couldn't muster up the courage to trade my 1999 baby) ... Ours

    2001 Emerald Green Pearl Accord V6-LX (Replaced the POS Taurus) ... Hers ...
    ..... Tranny replaced 6/4/08 @ 67,977 miles.
    ..... Tranny strarted slipping only 8,414 miles after the replacemnt.
    ..... 2nd tranny replacement 9/21/2009 @ 76,659 miles.
    1999 Sterling Mist Nissan Maxima SE with Bose and 6 Disc CD Changer in the trunk ... All Mine

    1993 Maroon Ford Taurus GL (Was a POS after the clock turned 60K Miles) ... Traded for the Accord

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  10. #39
    cnn
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    Now,

    The $1M question is: This is not unique to Ody but any car gasoline car out there....Approx. how many miles (I understand that there are many variables here) when the filtering element starts to get clogged?

    As a "scientific exercise", if someone during the next oil change can provide info on Bypass Valve, it'd be great!

    Just list:
    - Model/Year (such as EX 2006)
    - Oil type (such as 5W30 Valvoline standard vs synthetic)
    - Driving style (such as 50-50 city/hwy mix)
    - How many miles on the Oil Filter?

    Then cut open the oil filter in such a way that it does not touch the Bypass Valve.
    Then post photo to show whether the Bypass Valve is opened (i.e. in Bypass Mode) or closed.
    cnn: 2007 Odyssey LX

  11. #40
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    [QUOTE=cnn;728784]Then cut open the oil filter in such a way that it does not touch the Bypass Valve.
    QUOTE]

    In my experience, the best way to cut open an oil filter to protect the innards is to use a grinder to grind the seam off at the business end of the filter. It will/should be under some pressure so when you grind the majority of the seam down, it will likely pop or start expanding. As such, it is best to expect some oil drainage on a used filter.

    s

  12. #41
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    The main problem I see to 'scientifically' scrutinizing used filters is that the only people who have the tools to do a tightly controlled scientific experiment (same oil with same ammount of contaminants for exactly the same amount of time run under the same conditions and contaminants arleady in the same motor...you get my point) are the oil companies. At least I have yet to hear of an independent research study. As a result, all the email articles of broken down filters from authors who use big and cool sounding words (myself included although my vocabulary is neither big or cool) are never able to prove anything definitively. That being said, I love this idea CNN as I too wonder about the lifespan of a filter and the more info we can get from fellow ody owners (assuming similar oil pressures, etc.) the better idea we'll have. Bypass valves are important to inspect, but why stop there. If anyone is willing to tear into their used oil filter, I'd also want to know how full of debris their filter appears to be on visual inspection, how long (time as well as miles) the filter has been on the vehicle, etc. Other threads I've read talk about torn filter paper, so any other glaring concerns on visual inspection would be great to hear about as well.

    Personally, I change my fluid and filter ever 6 months as a matter of principle and I rarely have more than 2000 let alone 3000 miles on in that time so I am not too concerned about overextending the life of my filter or oil. I suppose that is the benefit of living in a town of 20k. Our commutes are a whopping 5 minutes and the closest thing we have to rush hour is a herd of deer crossing the street.
    2005 EX-L RES

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by smtippin View Post
    At least I have yet to hear of an independent research study. As a result, all the email articles of broken down filters from authors who use big and cool sounding words
    and I think this is more to my point in that the filter and it's capabilities just don't matter in the long run. The only thing that matters is that the filter doesn't fail and send pieces of itself into the engine

    As far back as I can remember, the manufacturers have always recommended to change the filter every OTHER oil change (dvpatel reminded me of that above). I have never done that, I always replace the filter every time (my thought is, I am there and dirty anyway, so why not just replace the filter too, cost is small).

    I have maintained cars that have run for 200,000 miles on crappy Chinese OEM filters, changing them every oil change. The filters just seem to be a non-issue (meaning, any filter is good enough for the long haul)

    I get caught up in the hype of people talking about filters (and oil, etc) Those of us that keep a car 10-15 years want to do what's right for it to last that long, so we get a little carried away with the details.

    My new thinking is that I don't need to do near as much as I have done in the past to hit that 200,000 mile mark without an oil related issue. (I hope not to have the Ody for 200k, I really dislike it at this point)
    2007 EX-L

  14. #43
    cnn
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    Oil Filter rarely fails but when it happens, oil filters fail in separate modes:

    1. Filtering Material breaking off, sending debris throughout and therefore destroying engine.
    There have been some instances involving Fram filter (Hint: Google it).
    Not sure if this is still true.

    2. The Filtering Material is clogged: in that case the Bypass Valve opens up.
    The car owners will not know about this because oil pressure is still OK, although the oil is now unfiltered.
    (Just to digress many many years ago in 1930s and 1940s, cars were built without oil filter, which was introduced in 1946's or so).

    Anyway, when you come to think about it: you dip a filtering element in hot oil (typically 90C) hours and hours and hours, they eventually go bad.
    cnn: 2007 Odyssey LX

  15. #44
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    One of our forum members, santoli3, had a FRAM fail on his Audi Coupe and send debris throughout the engine. An acquaintance of mine with a high-end import (Lexus or Infiniti....I can't recall) took legal action against FRAM for engine bottom-end damage. FRAM settled out of court, and he's not allowed to talk about it any more as a condition of the settlement.

    One would think that cellulose filter media in hot petroleum might have a finite life. Engineered glass fibre media would surely last longer (AmSOil oil filters and Baldwin hydraulic filters).

    OF

  16. #45
    cnn
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    OK Update,

    Just changed my engine oil.

    - Van is 2007 Ody LX
    - Oil is Synthetic 10W30
    - Driving is 50-50 city-highway
    - Oil Filter has 6,000 miles on it

    It took 3 minutes with Angle Grinder and the can is open. Note:

    1. Bypass Valve still closed after 6,000 miles, so the filtering element was still OK at that mileage.

    2. It took some firm pressure with my screwdriver to push Bypass Valve open.
    So it is a very good design.

    So, all in all, the Bosch 3323 is a very good filter.
    (FYI, as of July 2012 Mann ML-1008 is the same as Bosch 3323).

    Hope this helps someone making decision re which filter etc.


    Interesting info on Bosch Oil Filter (OEM vs Wix vs Bosch)-odyfilter6k.jpg
    cnn: 2007 Odyssey LX

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