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2015 Transmission Maintenance

28K views 27 replies 13 participants last post by  davedrivesody 
#1 ·
As on the second gen, I've noticed the transmission dipstick is unnecessarily short on the fourth gen. It would be a straight shot to extend the tube upward maybe 10 inches or so. It would be worth the additional six bits or so it would add to the unit cost of the vehicle. Don't know if this has been addressed here before but nonetheless, here's the only statement in the owner's manual I've found regarding checking or changing the ATF:

Have a dealer check the fluid level and replace if necessary.

I guess if Honda doesn't think that checking the ATF is a user serviceable option, an easily accessible dipstick is unnecessary.
 
#2 ·
If you think that is bad, try accessing the actual ATF filler bolt. The previous generation was much easier to get to with an extension on a ratchet but I was looking at my '15 last week and there are a bunch of hoses right on top of it. I guess I will refill it via the dipstick very slowly when the time comes.
 
#3 ·
I guess I will refill it via the dipstick very slowly when the time comes.
Honda forced the same option with the recall modifications they performed on the second gen transmissions. They plumbed an ATF line straight into the fill location, making it at least appear that it was something not to mess with.
 
#4 ·
With a relatively weak transmission design across all generations, you'd figure that they would want you to drain used ATF and fill it with fresh ATF on a regular basis.

Really strange.

OF
 
#5 ·
Sometimes I feel the marketing propaganda for "low cost of ownership" is getting in the way of informing owners of good responsible ownership thru proper maintenance. Only needing to change the AFT at 30k mile intervals comes to mind. Now even worse, "have your dealer check it". I think I'm getting old. Most folks I know turn the key and go.
 
#7 ·
All valid questions. On the transmission filter, I don't think it has ever been regarded as a maintenance item but it became relevant with the slew of transmission failures that owners experienced.

Many Toyotas (Sienna, et al) have sealed transmissions (no dipstick, no filler port) The ATF changes are at a 100,000 mile interval and my understanding is that dealer service centers are not set up to repair them - just remove and replace.
 
#8 · (Edited)
The six speed has an inline filter that has a hose connection from the radiator type cooler. You can order this filter and change it out. It's located in a fairly difficult spot to get to. I had luck removing the battery and tray mount to get access from the top. There is a real PIA bolt that holds the filter in a metal band. That one bolt probably took me 30 minutes of an 1.5 hour job. Easy to get out but a major pain to get it back in.

I replaced the filter on my 2011 six speed with something like 70K miles. Search for a post on changing fluid and you can see pictures where I took the filter apart to see if there was any crud or metalic debris inside. Good news is the filter was very clean.

Found it here:
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/54-20...ouring-transmission-filter-2.html#post1069729

Just this evening I changed my fluid. I am one of the guys who does the 10 quart shuffle! I drained the transmission fluid then filled up three quarts, drove a few miles, drained and filled, drove another loop, drained and filled a third time. The fluid was getting very clean by that last drain. Prior to that it was very dark red to brown. I had about 40K miles on this last change so it definitely needed to be changed. Oh that last quart of the ten is used to fill up the transmission properly. A typical drain will capture about 3.5 quarts but in my drain and fill cycle I only fill it with three quarts. I use about half of the last quart on the last fill to top it off.
 
#9 ·
"Just this evening I changed my fluid. I am one of the guys who does the 10 quart shuffle! I drained the transmission fluid then filled up three quarts, drove a few miles, drained and filled, drove another loop, drained and filled a third time. The fluid was getting very clean by that last drain. Prior to that it was very dark red to brown. I had about 40K miles on this last change so it definitely needed to be changed. Oh that last quart of the ten is used to fill up the transmission properly. A typical drain will capture about 3.5 quarts but in my drain and fill cycle I only fill it with three quarts. I use about half of the last quart on the last fill to top it off."

I bet the drain plug magnet had a bunch of **** on it. That is the best and smartest way to change out the fluid on the Odyssey. I really wish there was a better way to totally remove 100% of the fluid without a harmful flushing of the system. I sort of hate the idea of wasting so much of new fluid using the method mentioned above but that's the only way to do it right. My Sonata's transaxle is a sealed design and doesn't have a dipstick and conveniently doesn't recommend the 1st fluid change until 100,000 miles, right when the powertrain warranty expires.
 
#10 ·
I sort of hate the idea of wasting so much of new fluid using the method mentioned above but that's the only way to do it right.
Hear, hear! I remember when you could drain the T/C on a car. Don't know why Honda doesn't have a drain bolt. It could easily be made to be secured with safety wire, if there was any worry about it coming loose.

My Sonata's transaxle is a sealed design and doesn't have a dipstick and conveniently doesn't recommend the 1st fluid change until 100,000 miles, right when the powertrain warranty expires.
I think it will do better than most brands of vehicles at 100,000 miles. Better than "DODGE":

Dead
On
Day
Guarantee
Expires

Ok, so what is the recommended service interval? How often to change fluid? What about filter?
RinconVTR was big on performing Blackstone Labs UOA's on his engine oil and ATF. He had, IIRC, a 2009 with the newer trans design.

Blackstone noted that the Honda tranny still gives the ATF a workout. They recommended that he follow a single drain/refill regimen every 15,000 miles. Sooner would be better? I do the 15,000-mile single drain/refill with AmSOil ATF.

No idea on the external filter service interval. That Honda actually installs one now is a step in the right direction. They still have that totally non-serviceable sump filter. They really need to install a spin-on cartridge filter that can be changed regularly.

OF
 
#11 ·
Anyone desiring a traditional dipstick for the AT-6 may simply be able to order one for an 11-13 touring model. The exploded view of that transmission clearly shows a long handled dipstick as item #6, which is the same as the O.E. item on the 14-16 models, with a longer handle. For me, checking it cold once a month is fine. That way, I do not get burned, reaching down past hot components.
Jerry O.
 
#14 ·
Basically they don't want you monkeying with it. My 2011 KIA Sportage doesn't have a trans dipstick at all. I'll be trading long before the end of the power train warranty so I couldn't care less.
On the Odyssey we'll just go by the book. I guess most makers have determined that the less user monkeying with the transmission, the longer they last, so they use premium fluid and make it difficult for you to get contaminants or unapproved substances into the transmission.
 
#16 · (Edited)
.....or, designers make it difficult to change or seal it completely so that many miles and years later you will be paying for a new transmission!
I wonder about that, myself.

Change the fluids out regularly if at all possible!
+1.

I don't think any transmission sump strainers will catch anything smaller than 40 microns (find posts by our resident transmission builder funtown89; he has not been on board for a while, but the information he has posted is very informative).

That said, the ATF becomes a "reservoir" for holding the entire spectrum of wear particles until the next ATF change. Friction material from the clutch packs, metals from bearing surfaces as they wear, metals from the meshed gear sets, metals from the transmission case (for all those linear valves that reside in machined bores)...it adds up. Jimbo66 is right: the only way to remove that stuff is to regularly change the fluid.

Man, I don't know what "super substances" are purported to be in modern ATF's where a manufacturer can claim a "lifetime fill", but when it comes down to basics, all ATF base stocks are manufactured by only a handful of producers in North America. Additives for anti-foaming, bearing surface friction modification, dispersants, detergents, viscosity stabilizers & improvers, and clutch surface friction modifiers are included to make it work with a particular line of vehicles, and then it now has a name, or thus a specification (GM Dexron III, or Honda ATF-Z1, or Toyota ATF Type T-IV, etc.).

If you are a track guy and use the excellent Red Line Racing ATF (Type F), it doesn't have dedicated clutch surface friction modifiers. I noticed they changed their wording to "Similar to a Type F fluid, featuring even higher viscosity and no friction modifiers". It is no longer a fluid that performs like a Type F with no friction modifiers (my emphasis added). Their engineered synthetic base stock, plus the remaining Red Line add pack, gets it genuinely close enough.

That said, even if the additives package lasts the life of the vehicle (which I very sincerely doubt it would), without a highly efficient and effective replaceable filter, we have no choice but to periodically change fluids. Besides a Magnefine on our Gen 2's, I also change that little spin-on in-line canister filter periodically (p/n 25450-P7W-003) and its associated O-ring (p/n 91301-P7W-003). Because I do the 15,000 mile single drain/refill method, these get changed every third drain/refill.

I've started opening up my old Magnefines after removing them; their internal magnets can be re-purposed as awesome refrigerator magnets. :cool:

OF
 
#17 ·
My parents had a '73 AMC Hornet, which had no transmission maintenance recommended. The Chrysler Torqueflite transmission still had the same "soup" in it at 30 years of age, albeit with pretty low miles. That trans. never complained. Of course, those boxes had a bulletproof reputation.
Jerry O.
 
#18 ·
Yup, the 727 Torqueflite was an awesomely durable piece of kit. So was GM's Turbo-Hydramatic 400.

Our 1974 Dart performed well throughout its whole life on the original factory ATF fill. Those vehicles used different ATF's. Back in the 1970's, the bulk of the ATF base stock was built up around naturally occurring long-chain esters. More specifically, sperm whale oil. Also, it wasn't unusual for a car's cooling system to have a 160-deg F thermostat, which meant that the radiator in-tank ATF cooler really did cool the ATF.

Flash forward 40 years to the present day. The best we can do for generic bearing friction modifiers are chlorinated fractions of fat renderings from the pork industry. Nowhere near as thermally durable as sperm whale oil. Not unusual to have 195-deg F thermostats (or higher), which means at times the radiator in-tank ATF cooler will act significantly as a heater. Really rotten thermal environment combined with ATF that cannot match its ancestors' performance.

Beer. :cool: What? Just wait...

With all that in mind, our larger versions of the Hondamatic need all the help they can get. ATF changes help. Use a quality synthetic ATF. Add filtration. Add a better ATF cooler.

So, why the beer? After doing all of the above, you'll want to crack open a cold one!

OF
 
#20 ·
Good to know, thanks for posting. I have a tad over 10,000 miles on it now and may swap out 3-1/2 quarts around the 15K-20K mark. I was hoping someone would post their DIY experience with a 2015, specifically if they used the ATF filler plug and not the dipstick. The previous generation's plug seemed so much more accessible than the new one to me.
 
#21 ·
I have never developed a taste for beer, OF, but I do greatly appreciate your knowledge re the chemical/technical aspects of this transmission stuff. If I remember correctly, the LubeGard products are an attempt to compensate for the lack of the whale components of the earlier fluids.

Re the Turbo 400 box, I actually had a problem with the one in our '69 Pontiac. I noticed, one day, as I was going down the hill from Virginia City, Nevada, that I had no compression braking when second gear was selected. As it turned out, all the lining had worn off the second gear band and the steel band was wearing into the drum. I attribute the failure to the fact that I was in the habit of using second gear for braking on a turn I negotiated several times a day. I was fortunate that that machine was covered by the fairly new 5/50 warranty and I got to watch the mechanic (they still called them that those days) disassemble and reassemble the box and see exactly what had gone wrong. Try to hang out in a dealership shop like that these days. Different times!
Jerry O.
 
#22 ·
I have never developed a taste for beer, OF, but I do greatly appreciate your knowledge re the chemical/technical aspects of this transmission stuff. If I remember correctly, the LubeGard products are an attempt to compensate for the lack of the whale components of the earlier fluids.
I believe that's right. Lubegard does have "waxes", but that term is applied to a wide variety of compounds. We tend to think of them generically as, well, the stuff candles are made of, but it does include esters with a long carbon backbone that remain in a liquid state at a variety of temperatures, both low and high, and these are very, very, very thermally stable.

No matter what's in it, I'm glad you posted your experiences about it years ago. After reading that, I purchased it, and have never looked back. Lubegard was a key player in solving +the really annoying and disturbingly harsh reverse engagement clunk we had on both of our Odysseys.

Still using it in all of our vehicles to this day. We have a quart of Lubegard Red and a quart of Lubegard Platinum in the solvents closet in our garage. When the LG Red is used up (which could take many years), we'll try the highly regarded Platinum. Either way, lots of people all over North America have positive things to say about this stuff.

Re the Turbo 400 box, I actually had a problem with the one in our '69 Pontiac. I noticed, one day, as I was going down the hill from Virginia City, Nevada, that I had no compression braking when second gear was selected. As it turned out, all the lining had worn off the second gear band and the steel band was wearing into the drum.
Holy cow. Bands. Drums. I remember adjusting those on my truck (and on other vehicles). Now that's a trip down memory lane.

Makes me wonder if Lubegard would have helped. :D



Back on track...for all you Ody owners who may be starting to endure harsh gear engagements, both up and down-shifting, Lubegard is a tremendous product. Used by SAAB to fix possible rough gear engagement and torque converter shudder problems. We haven't had a first-start-of-day harsh reverse engagement since using this stuff years ago in our Odysseys.

I'm not an additives guy. I stick with quality lubricants like Mobil 1 motor oil and AmSOil Signature Series ATF. That I think highly enough of Lubegard to add it to a top-notch ATF like AmSOil, well, I think that's saying a lot.

OF
 
#23 ·
Wow 20K ATF changes. Now I feel bad that I didn't change fluids until 200K on my 2008 Ody. The only issue I had was the third gear pressure sensor needed replacing. You need to take out the battery and move some vacuum lines to get to it. Since my wife is using the new Ody, it might be a few years before We get it to 20K.
 
#25 ·
I got around to taking some pictures of the difficult-to-reach fill plug and the dipstick tube on the tranny today and after removing the dipstick, I realized it is so much wider than I had thought and will easily accommodate a long funnel with a hose attached for refill. That plug next to the 3 D-cell Mag-Light is actually the width of the tube and very wide in my opinion and I am not too worried about the funnel overflowing. The previous generation seemed much easier to access the ATF fill port from videos I have watched.

Sorry about the duplicate pics.
 

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#28 ·
True, the Sienna has an ATF fill and check port, but accessing it requires a lift, i.e. shop visit.

The ATF temperature warning is how the computer detects (indirectly) that the fluid level is low. Without that, Toyota might be liable for transmissions that failed due to insufficient ATF. With that, the burden shifts to the owner.

Also on marvelous Sienna maintenance, the first step in the shop manual for replacing the water pump is to remove the engine and place it on a stand. :rollingeyes: To be fair though, some creative techs have found a shortcut: disconnect all the motor mounts and angle the engine up to get just enough clearance to remove the WP.

Dave
 
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