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Steering Wheel Vibration During Braking

127K views 45 replies 27 participants last post by  surgeon 
#1 ·
Hi, I have a 2007 Ody and I have been having problems where the steering wheel shimmies pretty heavy DURING BRAKING ONLY while slowing from between 75 down to about 50MPH. Below 50, nothing. I just recently did brakes and put 'slighly' used rotors and pads. A friend gave them to me and we thought the woman who wanted them changed might have been crazy. Well after I put them on, I still had the issue. The van has 44k miles on it. My wife then ran over a screw and I noticed the Michelins were ready to be replaced. I had 4 new Michelins put on and then went to my friends shop who put on new rotors and ceramic pads. He thought I was crazy for changing them as they had plenty of meat on the rotors and the pads. I told him about the shaking and he said he understood(warped rotor symdrome).Driving home,,, same thing!!! Braking from 70 I got the shimmy. I brought the car to my friends shop yesterday and had him check the whole front end. Nothing awry. I had his worker drive the van and he was stumped. I called Honda and asked about recalls and known issues. The guy was nice, but wouldn't admit to recalls or 'known' issues. Then I checked this forum and found discussions from bad rotors to bad motor mount, to bad torque converter. I also noticed someone had the exact same issue but I couldn't not find if he ever got a resolution. I find the problem with the forum is there is a lot of info and people asnwer to different issues,, like acceration or decelleration. This is strictly a braking issue. I also read about rear shocks. So you can understand my confusion. So in summary, 2 sets of rotors/pads and I have the same issue WHILE BRAKING from highway speeds. I am trying to get one of my friends to check with their buds at local Honda service centers where they worked, but I haven't gotten any response yet. So if someone has had this exact issue and its been fixed, I'd love to hear the solution. And yes,, I will change the rotors AGAIN if need be............
 
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#2 ·
I know you want a clear answer, but we don't have the car in front of us so we can only offer suggestions... :dunno:

This certainly sounds like a rotor problem. Have the runout of the new rotors measured, so you don't replace them needlessly. The new rotor must sit perfectly on the hub - any dirt or rust could throw it off. Also, the wheel lugs need to be tightened in the proper order and by hand to the correct torque. Any of these could distort a good rotor after the installation.

Otherwise, check that the steering components are tight, especially the tie rod ends.

Lastly, rotate your tires front to back. A tire with internal damage such as a broken belt could vibrate under braking load. This is especially suspect if the van shimmies only under hard braking at 75mph. If it shimmies the same even under light braking, tires are less likely to be the culprits.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the responses. Being a cumputer analyst, I did a little troubleshooting on my own. I did some road testing of the brakes while going around sharp curves at different speeds. Luckily I live where the are 2 very winding highways. When I turn both left and right while braking from 65-75, the vibration seems to move 'somewhere' else. It could actually be coming from the back. I need to have a driver and get in the back. It seems the 'pressure' on the steering rack while turning shifts the problem. This makes sense from a weight distribution perspective. Next step: have someone else drive and I sit in the back to see if I can pinpoint the issue. I also notice when I come out of the turns, the vibration INCREASES while driving straight again. Again, maybe a re-adjustment of the weight shift as there is no pressure on the rack & pinion.

I'll keep you posted. It's getting interesting!
 
#7 ·
I am wrestling with a brake vibration problem right now and mine seems to be uneven lining material transfer to the rotors, which mimics warpage. I checked my rotors, which are fairly new, for run-out and they are perfectly straight. I checked them on the hubs, which rules out faulty installation. I think my problem is that I installed some high-performance Satisfied pads and did not do the break-in properly. I guess I will have to have the rotors resurfaced just enough to expose the raw metal and get rid of the lining material deposits, so I can do a proper break-in. All this is simply to alert others to the possibility of this sort of difficulty.

I also made another bone-head error by using old pads (85K pads with around 80% left) on new rear rotors. This caused a bad thump, which seems to be cured by a set of new pad installed today.:(

Jerry O.
 
#8 ·
Typically steering wheel vibration during braking involves front rotor warp or front pad issue (now this is typical, there could be other issues). Also, brake pedal pulse/vibration during braking involves rear rotor warp or issues related to rear brakes.

Again this is a very generic guideline that was useful to me when I had problems with my Accord.
 
#10 ·
I realize that this thread is old but we had the exact same symptoms (steering wheel shake when braking above 80kph/50mph and not below.

I took it into our independent garage yesterday and it turns out all four rotors were worn and blue from heating/overheating. All four sets of pads were also worn down. All this at 52k kms (~32k miles).

So, 800CAD$ and new rotors and pads later, the shake is gone.

Nicolas
 
#11 ·
I took it into our independent garage yesterday and it turns out all four rotors were worn and blue from heating/overheating. All four sets of pads were also worn down. All this at 52k kms (~32k miles).
As an additional note, two days after the brakes swap I went on a 140 km drive on the highway and after a while the steering wheel started shaking, then the whole van. Thought I had a flat but it turned out to be the rear driver's brake pad seemed stuck and smoke was coming out of it.

I tried to get it unstuck by driving in reverse a bit, then drove more slowly and took it to my garage who figured out one side's hand brake had stuck, which caused the rotor to overheat. They cleaned/lubed/readjusted both hand brakes (at no cost, which I was expecting) and it seems fine now.

Nicolas

P.s. Strange, I can't edit my own post...
 
#12 ·
shaking can be suspension related

As someone mentioned earlier, a shaking steering wheel at higher speed while braking can indeed be caused by worn tie rods or other front suspension components like bushings.
When you brake at high speed there is a lot of force that tries to actually toes out the front tires. If there is any slop in the ties rods this toe out can occur with the result that the front tires are now fightling each other due to toe out..

On my BMW 735 I had same symptons of shaking during high speed braking, in this case it was caused by the thrust bushings at the end of the control arms which had gotten soft and also allowed excessive tow out.
 
#13 ·
We have a 2006 Honda Odyssey and it has been a good car except for one major issue. The car has never missed a scheduled service at the dealer or ever been to anyone but the dealer for anything. Over the past few 30 thousand miles or so, the car had developed a worsening shimmy or now severe shake under braking at highway speeds. The shaking stops once the car decreases to about 45-50 MPH, this only happens under braking. Now here is my question. We went to the dealer to ask what to do and the service tech at SCHOCKLEY HONDA in Frederick MD said we need to replace the brakes, the first tech said they would turn the rotors and the send tech said they would put new ones on. They gave us the inspection report on pad thickness, 6mm left on the front and 4mm on the rear. Here is where I became a little concerned. The rotors have no discoloration on them, no signs of grooving, no visible wear on the rotors, and so I went home and took the left front wheel off and the rear. The front pads were at 8MM and the rears 6.5. Then I put a magnetic run out guage on the strut and put the dial on the rotor face and only got .0076 thousands of a differential on the surface of the rotor. So the rotor is not warped at all, in fact it's almost dead flat. and the pads are well within tolerance. I put one of my pry bars in the A arm and gave the A arm a good push and a tug in the opposite direction. The rear bushings look dry rotted and they move with ease. I am going to go out on a limb and say the bushings are shot, and are causing the shimmy. When I used to work for BMW we had to replace the control arm bushings all the time because when they went bad and resembled a serious warp in the rotors. We used to replace the bushings with POLY bushings and it made them perfect. I am so frustrated to not find an answer to this issue with this Honda, I've read things like tires out of balance, ours are brand new, prop shaft out/CV shaft out of balance, never heard of such crap. Transmission problems. Nobody seems to address the Bushings in the a arms that seems to be like licorice, I can push and pull the A- arm front to back with ease. Is this the problem???? Is there a mechanic out there that works on honda that has replaced them?
 
#14 ·
It may be the rotors, but not because they are warped, rather because they have uneven buildup on them. Have them turned. If you are sure they are true, minimal metal should need removing. I say this because I don't recommend turning a rotor to make it true. Replacement is the best option in this case.
 
#16 · (Edited)
I just do not get you Jim! It is obvious that you have more talent and skills than the guys at the dealer. People who take their vehicles to the dealer for every single service lack what you have. In the time it took you to find the bad bushings, you could have changed the rotors! If I am not mistaken decent rotors are not that expensive if purchased from internet and/or using coupon at Advanced Auto. Nine out of ten times it will be the rotors. I drove my 1999 van with the brake shudder for many thousand miles but was finally fixed after the front rotors and pads were replaced.

Frankly, I am envious of your ability and I consider myself knowledgeable about this stuff.

- Vikas
 
#19 ·
Vibration while braking is usually caused by warped rotors, but it's unlikely the new ones are bad. It can also be caused by defective tires that distort under the rotational force of braking. Since most of the braking is done by the front tires, try rotating the tires front-to-back.
 
#20 ·
I finally got rid of the vibration* by... replacing the front rotors! :-/

The garage I had originally brought the car to had a look again as the vibration had returned very strongly. When I asked him why they had only lasted 8 months, he could only say that he had not put OEM-quality rotors, to save me about 80$. Well, that ended costing me an additionnal 250$ for the new rotors.

He did not charge me the time to replace them.

Nicolas

* It has been a week, but it feels really solid. We'll see...
 
#21 ·
tie rod end, not rotors

Just had rotors replaced on 2002 Odyssey about 6 months ago. Shaking and vibrating when braking from high speeds. Shop just called and said they believe it is the tie rod end on one side. From what I understand, normally you wouldn't suspect tie rod ends or bushings. Most people believe this problem is based on warped/worn rotors. If new tie rod end fixes problem, I'll follow up with my experience.
 
#22 ·
Replacing the tie rod end on my Odyssey fixed the braking vibration "shuddering" effect. Although you would suspect steering problems to be experienced with a deteriorating tie rod end, I did not have any steering problems. All symptoms indicated a warped/worn/uneven rotor problem. Grateful to my local mechanic who recognized and resolved the issue.
 
#25 ·
My 2007 Ody has this same problem. I resurfaced the front rotors and put brand new pads on, problem did not went away. Tires are getting old, so put brand new tires on, did an alignment with the brand new tires. Problem still there. The next thing I am going to do is check the play at the tie rod ends and bushings and then resurface the rear rotors and pads.

I'll update u guys later.
 
#26 ·
Replaced the front rotors on our 2000 LX and now the rear brakes are squeaking a hollar and embarrasing the wife when at a stop. Brake shimmy is gone now though!
 
#27 ·
We just bought an '07 Odyssey EX-L, had the same symptoms of vibration in the steering wheel when braking at high speeds. I could slightly feel the vibrations occasionally down in the 20 mph range but most of the time it was only felt above 55 mph. I put a dial indicator on the rotors and saw less than 0.0005” of runout so I started thinking the issue was something other than the rotors. The pads and rotors looked brand new, probably over 80% life still left in pads. Checked all of the steering system joints and all seemed well so I went ahead and tried new rotors and pads on the front and what do you know, shaking is gone. The rotors and pads were definitely aftermarket, could’ve just been junk rotors.
I went with OEM pads since most of you on this forum recommend them. I put Napa premium rotors on since they were the only decent rotors I could pick up locally (we’re heading out on a trip in 2 days and I didn’t have time to wait for an online order). We’ll see how the rotors handle the mountain trips here in Colorado.
PS: Thanks for all the great tips, this is a great forum.
 
#28 ·
Jib and all..... I had the same problem as jib..... So I did a brake job, replaced the front rotors with Ate, and oem pads, and replaced the rear pads with oem, then bleed the brakes, and bingo, no more vibration....

I will report back in a coupe of months too see how the rotors are holding up...






Sent from my Autoguide iPad app
 
#30 ·
Replying to my own post......

Resurfacing the old rotors does not work since hard spots can still be there after resurfacing. That's what happened in my Ody's case. I put on brand new aftermarket front rotors this weekend and the high speed vibration is gone.

I got the rotors from Autoparts123.com for ~$60 shipped, don't know how long they will last but $60 for troubleshooting is good price. I figure if they last for 2 years, it's good for me already since I can swap them myself. If I would have found this source, I wouldn't even spend $50 to resurface my OEM rotors. One thing I will continue doing is to check the rotors for hairline cracks every now and then, just to be safe. I used cheaper price rotors in my EVO before and they are still working in the car after $20K miles with no cracking.

Allen
 
#32 ·
***Resurfacing the old rotors does not work since hard spots can still be there***
???...Do you mean may not work? When you mean hard spots, do you mean adherent brake material that simply cannot be removed or disc material that has undergone material change due to overheating?

OF
 
#31 ·
I have a 2010 Honda Odyssey. I put a lot of miles on it, that is why I got a van, to travel with my family. I have same issues. First time, at approx 18,000 miles. Took it in and the dealership turn the rotors. This was Dec, 2010, I was not comfortable about this, having rotors turned this soon. It solve the issue. Then at 35, 000 miles (yes, I travel), again the vibration. Took it in, and because it wass still under the warrenty, they turned the rotors. I discussed this with the dealership and they would not replace the rotors. They turned them again. What happens when you turn rotors? they get thinner. Now I am out on vaction, and again, the vibration is off the hook. I took it in to the nearest honda dealership and wouldn't you know, they can't be turned any more. Now I have to fork out for new rotors. Why? This van is new. I have owned a number of vehicles and the Honda tells me I am heating up the rotors? It is my fault? All of a suddon I do not know how to brake, I have been driving for over 30 years and have a CDL, but I don't know how to brake a mini-van. I believe these are faulty parts and Honda does not want to admit to this. They said I was the first one to complain about this issue. I have filed a complaint with the Naionalt Highway Safety Association. I believe others are having the same problem, and all they are doing is putting a band-aid on the faulty part by turning the rotors and when it hits 50,000 miles, they make the consumer purchase new rotors. Out of all my vehicles I have owned, only one I ever had to buy new rotors, an AMC Jeep. (AMC should tell you how long ago that was).
So please if you have the problem, don't lay down, file a complaint with Honda, then NHTSA. I will be writing as many people I can to get my money back for these new rotors.
 
#33 ·
I should put it this way: "If hard spots developed in the rotors, resurfacing will not work." What I read from the internet is "disc material has undergone material change due to overheating", like what u said.
 
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