Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1289

On my 94 Integra GSR, I notice grinding of the brakes after its been left stopped for a day after a hard rain. After a few brake applications, the grinding is eliminated.

I notice the rear brakes wear faster than the fronts on the Integra as well. I'm guessing the fronts are semi-metallic pads and the rears are asbestos.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO USA
Posts: 135

The rear pads and rotors are just smaller. The fronts are still doing about 70 percent of the braking, but the pads are big enough to outlast the rears. Still, the fronts DO usually wear out first.

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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Parsippany, NJ
Posts: 15

I too have an Integra ('97), 65,000 miles on it, and I recently had the brakes serviced for the first time. The rear pads were replaced because of wear, the fronts "looked brand new" according to the service manager. Go figure.

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Registered: May 2002
Location: Weatogue, CT
Posts: 321

Didn't the stopping distance drop when the discs were put on the 02's? Metallic pads last longer than the other kind--whatever they are. Also seems like I heard that the asbestos pads are going away.

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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 70

I remember there was 01 vs 02 braking discussion under maybe 0-60 thread? The difference was nominal and could be attributed to variables such as driver,particular vehicle....etc.
I do know very gentle break-in helps proper seating & thus better braking performance. And as far as discs vs disc/drum. All discs are preferable for racing & light vehicle applications. The larger the vehicle &/or loads to be towed, the more disc/drum becomes advantageous.

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Registered: Apr 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 2819

The rear pads on my Prelude wore our faster as well. According to my mechanic, most Hondas with rear pads wear out sooner because they are undersized.

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 2812

quote:

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Originally posted by mseibel
And as far as discs vs disc/drum. All discs are preferable for racing & light vehicle applications. The larger the vehicle &/or loads to be towed, the more disc/drum becomes advantageous.

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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 70

Wayne, drums are more powerful because they are further out from the axle where there is more centrifical force. They also have more swept area. Even as most cars have gone to all disc, large trucks on up semi's still use drum brakes. Chevy's large 2500/3500 series trucks this year have also now moved to all discs, but they increased the size of the disc brakes by 36%......
Some of the trailer pulling folks aren't convinced about all discs yet.

And then the advantages of discs such as less mass, greater heat dissapation,easier/better ABS modulation,less water accumulation....etc.

Speaking of brakes, how about those ceramics on the Porsches? How about a set of those on Ody?? Probably save 10lbs at each corner!

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 2812

quote:

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Originally posted by mseibel
Wayne, drums are more powerful because they are further out from the axle where there is more centrifical force. They also have more swept area. Even as most cars have gone to all disc, large trucks on up semi's still use drum brakes. Chevy's large 2500/3500 series trucks this year have also now moved to all discs, but they increased the size of the disc brakes by 36%......
Some of the trailer pulling folks aren't convinced about all discs yet.

And then the advantages of discs such as less mass, greater heat dissapation,easier/better ABS modulation,less water accumulation....etc.

Speaking of brakes, how about those ceramics on the Porsches? How about a set of those on Ody?? Probably save 10lbs at each corner!

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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 70

Who would have thought 2 short sentences would generate so much heat
I'll try to 'splain a little more detail. Because of leverage, pushing out against the drums further away from the axis is more powerful for slowing a weighted spinning mass than squeezing a rotor closer to the axis to slow the same weighted mass. Because of the increased friction(stopping power), drums generate a lot of heat. Now where it gets sticky, pardon the pun, is at what heat temperatures do these 2 braking systems begin to lose braking efficiency, and at what rate performance declines once that threshhold is reached.
Drum brakes are more powerful. They generate more heat, and as we both noted, they don't dissipate that heat nearly as well as discs. In fact, in earlier days when drums got extremely heated & expanded, the shoes would sometimes bind inside the drums. Using the parking brakes was a remedy. Then there is the additional drums weight, accumulated water.....etc.
Porsche just came out with ceramic brakes on 02 911's? I haven't read anything about increased noise. Rather ironic for $100k & $180K models!
Oh yah, back to this forum, 02 disc/disc test brake distances nominally different from 01 disc/drum setup.....:yup:

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 459

Drum brakes operate by having the shoes expand outward against the inside of the drum. As the brakes heat up, the drum expands AWAY from the brake shoes. It takes more pedal to apply the brakes. This is what is known as fade. Since the shoes are enclosed they don't benefit from much of the cooling airflow. The drums have more mass than a vented rotor and take longer to cool. They don't recover from fade as quickly as a well ventilated disk rotor.

Disk brakes on the other hand, pinch the rotor. If the rotor expands, it expands toward the disk pads and not away. Fade is much less pronounced.

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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 70

Disc brake abilities to dissipate heat is one main reasons why they were originally developed in race applications, then trickled down to passenger cars, and now 4 wheel discs including even suv's & minivans. Discs much lighter weight, water dispersion, & efficient modulation where 3 other huge assets over drums.
Drum brakes however are still used for their greater power in larger, heavier applications such as delivery trucks,18 wheelers, & tractors. In these applications the vehicles generally are not driven intensely to generate heating conditions like in racing. And when drums do heat up, driver's can use diesel torque, &/or J-brakes. I've heard on new 18wheelers now the engine fuel computer monitoring systems can retard the fuel injection also? Sorry I'm not as familiar with the 18wheeler's fuel injection, but I've been keeping up with Ody for past couple of years!
Heating drum brakes actually expand the drum both inward & outward making the drum thicker. It's the actually swelling of the drum combined with swelling of the shoes that caused shoes to sometimes bind in earlier days....
I've seen physics,mechanic,truck, & driver guys debate drum vs disc on some other websites ad infinitum. My take again is neither is best. Both have their advantages/disadvantages utilized in special applications. Discs more towards lighter/speed/heat build up conditions & drums for all out power/low heat conditions.

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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Midland, MI, USA
Posts: 16

The number one reason to have disks is so you can actually work on them yourself.

Drums are the biggest pain known to man.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Northern California
Posts: 4378

quote:

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Originally posted by bobvanjr
The number one reason to have disks is so you can actually work on them yourself.

Drums are the biggest pain known to man.

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My wife says a kidney stone caused her the biggest pain.

Jerry O.

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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Midland, MI, USA
Posts: 16

After kidney stones.

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