Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Hovland MN
Posts: 1

To all the touring owners in the Minneapolis / St. Paul area, I'd like to offer the following recent experience.

We've got an '05 touring, and we love it. Friday afternoon, my wife stepped out to pick up junior from daycare; she came back in the house about 30 seconds later reporting the tire sensor was beeping and showing the front right tire down to 11psi.

We took the other car, picked up junior and did some other errands, and figured we'd take the van into the dealer the next morning for a wheel swap. Just to be sure, I called the Michelin pax hotline yet Friday night (about 8:30 or so); they were very helpful and gave me the numbers of the three nearest pax handlers (all of whom were honda dealers).

Saturday morning, bright and early. Sure enough, the tire is looking soggy, and the sensor says "0". I call the first dealer. "Well, we don't service the tire." Huh? Don't you have a spare unit you can put on there? "Well, um, er, not really. Call this tire dealer, they can help." (for those of you who are looking for names, this was Richfield-Bloomington Honda, where we had purchased the van originally)

Called the tire dealer, they said "our pax-certified guy is out until monday. Oh, and we don't do warranty service. If you want warranty service, you've got to talk to Michelin, if they want to pay us, great."


Was reasonably irritated at this point, so went out to do some errands. Came back after a great late breakfast over at Bryant Lake Bowl.

Call the second dealer "No one is here in the service dept., and the parts dept is closed." Can you make an appointment for me? "I guess so". OK, when? "No problem, the first time we can fit you in is Thursday." Thursday? "Thursday." (This was Hopkins Honda; we were going to purchase the van from them, but when we walked in with our checkbook ready, no one seemed interested in letting us drive one, and they were even less interested in taking our money. Needless to say, they are still not impressing me.)

Call up Michelin's pax hotline. Spoke with a Brian, who was extremely sympathetic. He took my number, saying "I'm going to call around and get you something sooner than Monday." Sure enough, he called me back about 10 minutes later, saying "Discount Tire down in Bloomington is waiting for you." Thank Brian, get in the van, and drive (keeping it under 50!) to Bloomington.

Kevin, Chris, Nate, and the rest of the crew at Discount Tire (8431 Lyndale ave s) were absolutely incredible. They saw me pull into the parking lot and waved me right into the bay, had the tire off **almost** before I had the key out of the ignition, and proceeded to get the tire replaced. I can't recommend these guys enough!!!

If you have never seen the process of replacing the tire on a pax system wheel, let me say it is the most amazingly complicated thing. It involves a special jig to fit the wheel assembly onto the tire machine, it involves crushing a plastic spacer into the bead / rim interface with the bead breaker (using a Michelin-defined process that is almost guaranteed to take out fingers), it involves three big guys pulling and pushing on the tire, it involves mashing knuckles, it involves a pneumatic ring stretcher that looks like a shoe tree on steroids, etc., etc. There are several thousand opportunities for cursing, throwing things, general mayhem, and destruction. These guys kept their cool the entire 2 hours. Even when fingers got mashed, the Discount Tire guys did not swear once! (If it was me, I'd still be washing my mouth out with soap...)

For those who are wondering, the completely flat pax tire handled extremely well. This was a front tire, and the van is front wheel drive, so I was concerned before setting out. The vehicle pulled a bit to the right, but not in an extreme fashion, and there was a lot of tire noise. The ride was a little rougher. Otherwise, it handled extremely well -- certainly, there was no sensation of "sliding" as you went around corners, there was no sensation of control loss when brakeing. Bottom line, the system works as advertised.

If you have **any** tire needs, I strongly recommend the guys at Discount Tire. They can get the snow tire package for the Ody, and I'm sure they'd love to have your non-pax business! (They'd probably **prefer** to have your non-pax business!)

On the other hand, I can't recommend at all either Richfield-Bloomington Honda or Hopkins Honda. I hope that other people have better luck with their local dealerships.

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 257

That's pretty cool. I think the right thing you did was to escalate the issue with Michelin's pax hotline. I would follow up with both Michelin and Honda to provide them feedback about their lack of pax support at their dealerships.

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2005 ODY Touring R/N, Silver/Black
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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 778

It's great to hear that PAX repair equipment is finally showing up at tire stores but disheartening that Honda has done such a dismal job with their dealers.

Appreciate your sharing how the actual re-mounting was accomplished.

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'05 Touring R&N (formerly)

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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 561

Interesting story, at least you were home and had a second car to use. The scary part is being on a long road trip, more than the 150 miles from your destination, at night or on a weekend.

If, or should I say (when) it happens to me for the first time, I hope I am home too.

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05 Touring, Nighthawk Black / Black

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 50

Imagine if you were out of town or on vacation! The much discussed idea that the PAX system is so much better because "wife and kids will be safer" is a joke. I guess your wife and kids driving around trying to find someone to fix this tire is preferential.

This is a great example of why I hate the PAX system so much. I know it worked out in the end, but here is no excuse for you to go through what you did to get your vehicle back up and running. And then when you find someone you've got 2 hrs to replace the tire?! Are you effing kidding me??

The IDEA of the system is good, but the EXECUTION is ridiculous.

I am so against forcing me to buy this system with the Touring model I wanted that it's been the one major disappointment I've had with the Ody.

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06 Touring R&N
slate/olive
Mr. Grille, hood deflector, mud guards

06 Titan LE crew cab 4x4
Red Brawn/gray
leveling kit, dual exhaust, cold air intake, 20 inch custom wheels

78 Toyota Landcruiser FJ40
all kinds of off road stuff
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pre Ody
06 Lexus GS430
03 Toyota Landcruiser
01 Nissan Pathfinder
01 Ford F150
99 Dodge Durango
92 Honda Accord
89 Honda CRX
88 Honda CRX
82 Datsun 210
79 Ford Pinto

Last edited by loveboxers on 05-07-2006 at 05:19 PM

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 537

Touring buyers are being used as beta testers for the system that is supposed to service and distribute Pax tires. Did the customer want to pay good money only to be a guinea pig for the manufacturer and dealer?

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 439

Discount Tire is the best, hands down.

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2006 Ocean Mist Metallic, R.E.S. & Navigation. Honda: Splash Guards, Rear Cargo Tray & Wheel Locks, All Season Floor Mats. 6 Year, 100,000 mile Honda Care Extended Warranty.

Other car - 2009 Toyota Camry XLE - V-6 getting 28 MPG overall, 33.4 Best Tank

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Houston, Texas USA
Posts: 994

Love Boxer what part of looking for a place to fix a tire is not considered safe?

My experience is vastly different from the guy who posted. I just called my competent dealer, and scheduled them to switch out the flat PAX tire. Less than 15minutes. All the while we drove around with a flat tire. Even if we had the old tech regular tires, I'd still have to change it with the spare then haul that dirty wheel/tire to a shop to fix the flat.

PAX is great.

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2005 Silver/Grey Touring N+R
PAX Lover

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Registered: May 2006
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 62

PAX is here to stay.. I was listening to talk radio "Goss's Garage Show" and Goss interviewed an engineer from Firestone. He mentioned that run flats are the future and Firestone was inversting heavily on the technology..

I think Honda has the right idea, they are just a little early to the game. I would expect to see support for PAX grow as more and more cars have the option.

Me, I am very happy about using a standard tire for a few more years..

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Houston, Texas USA
Posts: 994

BTW nice first post!

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2005 Silver/Grey Touring N+R
PAX Lover

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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 561

It seems everything has its pros and cons. I had already decided to buy the ody before I was told about Pax. I almost opted out of the touring because of it. I am very uneasy about any new technology. I did however decide to go with it, and so far so good.
The pros are obvious, since my wife almost drives the ody exclusively, its comforting to know she won't be stranded on the side of a highway in a dangerous situation. However...
she makes frequent trips to visit our daughter at college. The trip from Long Island to Pittsburgh is about 460 miles. If by chance something happened to a tire on that trip, she would have to get off the road and find a hotel (if its at night or a Sunday) Then try to find a local dealer who can do the repair. That is the part of the "Pax system" that really bothers me. I am considering getting a spare tire just for that reason. AAA could change a tire for her, and I could tend to the Pax problem here.

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05 Touring, Nighthawk Black / Black

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1512

Sorry it was such a hassle for you. I don't have the PAX system, but I have to say that Discount Tire has been great to work with for me as well. I bought my snow tires from them, and they swapped out my snows for my stock tires this spring without question at no charge. (I don't know...maybe every tire place does this...) I wasn't there when the swap was finished and ended up going to the van first to drop off a couple of things before I went into the store. Before I even got the sliding door closed, the customer service guy was at my van giving me a record of the swap and telling me to have a nice day. I would recommend them to anyone who needs new tires.

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Mommyvan
'05 EX Slate Green/Gray cloth

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