Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Tucker, GA, USA
Posts: 12

CEL story (with a happy ending)

A couple of weeks ago the Check Engine and TCS lights lit up in my '01 Ody EX. The van had been running a little rough at times and seemed to stumble if I eased off the gas at about 50 mph.

I took it to the parts store and got them to read the trouble code. It came back P0172 (fuel system for Bank 1 too rich). Their opinion was that the 02 sensor after the catalytic converter might be bad.

I took it to an independent Honda shop I trust and got them to read the code. Same result, but this time the lights went out. The guy told me he had not reset them. His opinion was that the EGR valve might be involved. He also said I should be using midgrade gas at least (I typically use regular).

A couple of days later they came back on. After much internal debate and considerable reading at this site and others, I decided to take the van back to the dealer who sold it to us, in the home that any repairs might be covered at least in part under warranty or some kind of "secret warranty."

I took the van in three days ago. They sent me out on a test drive with a technician, and of course the van ran just fine, no symptoms. But I left it with them. Later that day they told me they had diagnosed a faulty (not just clogged) EGR valve and wanted almost $300 to replace it. I politely pointed out that the van was only six months and 2,000 miles out of its basic warranty and asked if there was something they could do about the price. My service advisor said she would check, and called me back a little while later saying her boss had agreed to do the job for free as a goodwill gesture. I thanked her and asked her to pass along my thanks to her boss. I also had them replace my front brake pads, but there was no question that needed to be done, and I was OK with the price on that.

So -- despite my doubts, I feel like the decision to take it to the dealer turned out to be a good one. And if there are lessons here, they are:

A. Be as nice as possible for as long as possible, even when dealing with dealers.

B. If you want something, it doesn't hurt to ask.

C. Maybe there was a "secret warranty" all along.

I hope the work was done right, 'cause it's almost road trip time!

Paul

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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 202

They were trying to screw you. Honda had so many problems with the EGR on this model year that the warranty was extended to 80,000 miles for that part. Do a search for "EGR warranty" on this forum for multiple threads.

Don't you love it when they try to make you feel like they did something nice when they were actually just doing what was right?

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SS 2002 LX

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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: So Cal
Posts: 12661

The EGR is part of the emissions system and is warrantied for longer than the basic warranty. The length seems to vary from state to state. I also remember reading here that Honda has extented the warranty on EGRs for your model year until 80k. I avoided dealers myself for years until I found out that every major repair we paid for on our 95 Civic had a technical service bulletin on it!

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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 202

Here's the info on the warranty extension, taken from the NHTSA website:


Make : HONDA Model : ODYSSEY Year : 2001
Manufacturer : AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.
Service Bulletin Num : 011001 Date of Bulletin: OCT 01, 2001
NHTSA Item Number: 626752
Component: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:EXHAUST SYSTEM:EMISSION CONTROL:GAS RECIRCULATION VALVE (EGR VALVE)
Summary:
INFORMATION REGARDING A WARRANTY EXTENSTION THAT COVERS EGR SYSTEM CLOGGING. *TT



You can search their website for any and all TSB's that cover your vehicle.

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SS 2002 LX

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Tucker, GA, USA
Posts: 12

I did find one Service Bulletin (00-009, 10/26/01, "Odyssey Warranty Extension: EGR Port Clogging") but my van fell outside the specified VIN range. Maybe there was another one that did cover my van.

Another thing: The bulletin mentions codes P0141 (insufficient EGR flow) or P1491 (insufficient EGR lift), not the code I got. It describes the Corrective Action as "Clean the EGR port, and install the EGR pipe kit."

The way the service advisor described my situation (she was quite clear about it) was that the EGR valve had FAILED, not just that it was clogged. She could have been blowing smoke, ya reckon? How would I know? That kind of stuff is a bit beyond my limited mechanical ability and/or my tolerance for the time and trouble required.

Anyway, like I said, happy ending, to the extent that I wasn't out an extra $300 (maybe a bit less if I'd had another shop do it). Maybe the dealer figured it was a gray enough area to cut some slack. Or maybe they figured I'd complain to the zone office if I had to pay (I would have).

I'll have to go back and read the emissions warranty again, but it seems like the last time I looked at it, it had some wiggle room built in. Quelle suprise.

Paul

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Marshall, MI
Posts: 294

The service advisor is correct. The egr valve is covered for 3/36. The extension covers to 8/80, but just a failed valve is 3/36. That is why she stressed that it was not a failure due to port clogging. If the same vehicle was in my shop I would have approved repairs. There is no "secret warranty" I can, at my discretion cover anything I want up to 7/75k-$500.00. This is called goodwill. I get to file for warranty coverage and get paid back from Honda. Also, notice how to be eligible you must have one of the dtc stored, he did not. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the service manager should not have covered it, just that the pmueller78 was polite, did everything he should have the service manager did the right thing as well, but he did not have too, so a little credit to him is due. I know if your at my counter being nice and another customer is next to you yelling at me, who do you think I'm going to allocate my funds too?

FROM S/B 00-009-
NOTE, To be eligible for coverage under this extended warranty, the MIL must be on with one of the above DTCs stored


BACKGROUND
In some areas of the U.S., certain basic chemical
properties of gasoline (regardless of brand) may cause
the intake manifold EGR port to clog or the EGR valve
to fail. If this happens, the MIL comes on and DTC
P0401 (insufficient EGR flow) or P1491 (insufficient
EGR lift) is set.
WARRANTY EXTENSION INFORMATION
This warranty extension cancels the PCV hose routing
Product Update Campaign. You should no longer
install the PCV hose routing kit.
American Honda is extending the warranty on EGR
system problems in the affected vehicles to 8 years or
80,000 miles, whichever comes first. To be eligible for
coverage under this extended warranty, the MIL must
be on with one of the above DTCs stored. Install the
EGR pipe kit, and file a claim using the information in
this service bulletin.
CUSTOMER NOTIFICATION
The PUD covered the first part of the 1999 model year
(about the first 18,000 VINs). Owners of these vehicles
will be mailed a letter explaining that the PUD has been
cancelled, and detailing the 8 year, 80,000 mile
warranty extension covering EGR system clogging.
The remainder of the 1999 model year, all of 2000, and
part of the 2001 model year are being added to the
warranty extension. Owners of these vehicles will be
mailed a letter detailing the 8 year, 80,000 mile
warranty extension covering EGR system clogging.
Examples of the customer notifications are at the end
of this service bulletin.

FROM THE 2001 WARRANTY BOOK.
Note, egr does not have 8/80 next to it, meaning it falls under 3/36.

Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR)
System
EGR valve vacuum control valve.
EGR valve vacuum control solenoid
valve.
EGR valve.
EGR valve position sensor.
Exhaust System
Three-way catalytic converter. 8/80
Warm-up three-way catalytic
converter. 8/80
NOx adsorptive three-way catalytic
converter. 8/80
Exhaust manifold.
Exhaust pipe (engine to catalytic
converter or between converters).



Eric

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