2016 ExL Piston Rings to be replaced at 62k !!! - Page 2
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Thread: 2016 ExL Piston Rings to be replaced at 62k !!!

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkrface View Post
    There literally is only one reason manufacturers are messing with shutting off cylinders, auto-stop, etc. It's called the EPA and their CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) requirements. Squeezing an extra mile or two mpg out of their high volume models allows them to sell more of the highly profitable Crossovers and SUVs. The EPA, as a government agency, has a crazy amount of power within it's policies and isn't even legislated. Each administration directs the EPA as they see fit, so naturally there can be a significant difference in how aggressively they push certain agendas from one administration to the next.
    Yes, yes, yes.

    And that idle shut down / starter thing mentioned above is a very similar example. The manufacturers are basically being forced to do things that they KNOW are bad for their cars just to increase MPG. I wonder if 0W-20 vs. 5W-30 fits this category as well.

    But they have no choice due to CAFE. And if you look at profitability across a manufacturer's lineup, you'll typically see that they make a ton of $$ on certain popular cars, and they actually lose money on the cars nobody wants - and those are the high MPG cars that are effectively subsidized just so they can get the sales to balance against the profitable cars to meet fleet-wide CAFE requirements and also keep shareholders happy by making some $$. So it means if you're buying a high MPG car, it is likely to be a better deal because the manufacturer is willing to sell it just so they can sell the low-MPG counterpart that IS profitable.

    The net effect is that fleet MPG numbers will be rising, but at the same time, longevity of those cars is not. VCM is Honda's big problem, but most manufacturers have their own - the problems are widespread. And for the MPG/EPA fans, they see reduced longevity as a good thing too, since they consider older cars to be a problem. Every year or so, here in CA, I get an automated letter from the DMV offering to buy my old air-cooled Porsche 911 for $1500. And if that makes you laugh, I think they started at $500. They probably think I'm holding out for $2000, and are playing hardball.
    2011 Odyssey LX, 106k miles
    1999 Odyssey EX, 234k miles, original owner

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldskewel View Post
    Every year or so, here in CA, I get an automated letter from the DMV offering to buy my old air-cooled Porsche 911 for $1500. And if that makes you laugh, I think they started at $500. They probably think I'm holding out for $2000, and are playing hardball.


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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CroMath View Post
    The only surefire way to prevent this from happening again is to disable VCM... If your Ody is otherwise serving you well, you should keep it and disable VCM. The current state of the art in disabling devices is called a VCMTuner II. Other very good options are S-VCM controller, VCMuzzler II or MaxMuzzler. You can Google any of these terms and they should come right up.
    At 72,000 miles on our 2017 Ody, I hadn't noticed any VCM issues but went ahead and installed the S-VCM this past week. The ECO light has not come on since. So will disabling VCM before having any issues potentially keep me from experiencing the adverse VCM issues - or has the damage potentially already been done and I just haven't noticed it yet?

    I installed a switch on the S-VCM so I could easily re-enable VCM for long road trips to get better mileage - but after reading more about it here I'm thinking I will keep VCM off forever. Any thoughts on this?

    What I don't quite understand is how the VCM causes worn piston rings - can anyone help me understand the cause/effect? Meanwhile, should I go ahead and replace the spark plugs even though the MaintenanceMinder has not prompted them to be changed yet? Can I change them with normal tools or are some of the plugs hard to access?

    Thanks!

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  6. #19
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    What appently happens is when the cylinders are shut down, the piston rings align so oil leaks by. That oil is not burned by spark. The pistons are still moving, there is just no explosions from fuel, air, and spark. (even if this is incomplete or just wrong, it will spur a correction)
    I would not think it too late, especially on a 2017 that doesn't even have the known weak piston rings. This instance could be a one off, we would need a lot more reports of 2014 and newer vans with piston ring issues. Try taking a long road trip without VCM. You may never use that switch.

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by egads View Post
    I would not think it too late, especially on a 2017 that doesn't even have the known weak piston rings.
    I just realized I typo'd the model year - my Odyssey is a 2014. Unfortunately I can't seem to correct the original post.

  8. #21
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    Actual damage to the piston rings comes from the misfires caused by the oil blowing by the rings. These piston rings need the pressure of combustion to fully seal against the cylinder walls.

    The noticeable misfires are not the first things that happen though. The oil getting past the rings at first is getting burned off (albeit incompletely) when the cylinder fires back up. But the products of that incomplete burn foul the spark plugs and get the piston rings to stick in place. Once the rings get stuck, the blow by gets worse and the cycle amplifies itself through repetition. Eventually the PCM is unable to compensate for the small misfires and you get bigger misfires that damage the rings.

    If you have no noticeable symptoms of VCM problems as you drive, it's possible that installing the S-VCM controller and letting the cylinders fire all the time could clear out some of the contamination in the rings. Probably not all of it, but maybe some if it's not too much. It will definitely prevent things from getting any worse than they already are.

    As for changing the spark plugs early, I'd say maybe. It would be best to pull a couple out for inspection (like cylinders 3 and 4) and see how they look before spending the time and money to change them all early. I'd also leave the S-VCM controller active all the time - it's my opinion and experience that not much good comes from letting VCM operate normally.
    Last edited by CroMath; 04-24-2019 at 09:15 AM.
    2015 EX - Shear Comfort seat covers, Husky Liners floor liners, OEM cargo liner, S-VCM, Street Guardian dashcam, Lubegard Red

    There is no contradiction in having a soft heart and a hard mind.

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthrj18 View Post
    Are the highway speed vibrations due to the VCM operating? My 2017 has an audible drone noise and vibrates some when VCM is active. My wife didn’t notice it until I pointed it out to her. I had to muzzle it after I noticed or I was going to lose my mind, lol.
    After all that work it was better, not perfect. Its been a week or so and it seems to be worsening again, visibly shakes the seats. I don’t think they did the side engine mounts, only the front and rear. They even used rims and tires off a brand new one to road test. It seems to do it all the time maybe worse when the ECO light is on. I can almost guarantee my wife will not allow this mod lol. I’m not pleased at all. We’re close to paying it off and to the point of not really needing a minivan anymore so I’m considering selling. Maybe I’ll try getting the tires balanced again.


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  10. #23
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    It’s sad when an almost $40,000 car 2.5 years in with 49k rides considerably worse than an 05 Titan with 240k, cupped rotten tires, misaligned and on the original shocks.


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  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jc_Ody View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthrj18 View Post
    Are the highway speed vibrations due to the VCM operating? My 2017 has an audible drone noise and vibrates some when VCM is active. My wife didn’t notice it until I pointed it out to her. I had to muzzle it after I noticed or I was going to lose my mind, lol.
    After all that work it was better, not perfect. Its been a week or so and it seems to be worsening again, visibly shakes the seats. I don’t think they did the side engine mounts, only the front and rear. They even used rims and tires off a brand new one to road test. It seems to do it all the time maybe worse when the ECO light is on. I can almost guarantee my wife will not allow this mod lol. I’m not pleased at all. We’re close to paying it off and to the point of not really needing a minivan anymore so I’m considering selling. Maybe I’ll try getting the tires balanced again.


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    So sorry to hear that. Figured I’d ask. You’d definitely know it was the VCM because the noise and sensation would start just before the eco light came on and shortly after it went off.

    It a head scratcher. I wonder if some of the wheel bearings are failing or if it is the motor mounts that weren’t replaced yet.

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbier View Post
    I just realized I typo'd the model year - my Odyssey is a 2014. Unfortunately I can't seem to correct the original post.
    The latest forum software is not going to allow you to edit your post after a set amount of time. In any case, the piston rings did change starting in the 2014 model. Of course that just made the issue a maybe instead of assured.

  13. #26
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    Jc_Ody, the whole point of the simple Muzzler products is they are plug & play. They plug between the factory connectors
    with factory connectors. They also unplug just as easily. Many folks around here just remove it when they go in for service.
    Many have reported the dealer never even noticing it. The only caution is to install and remove when the engine is cold.
    With your history of issues, I would be too curious not to try a simple one. Is your wife checking under the hood?

    The S-VCM and VCMTunerII do require a wire to the battery and are pretty obvious, so it is something to install when it is truly yours.

    You should also have the trans fluid changed if you have not already.

  14. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jc_Ody View Post
    I can almost guarantee my wife will not allow this mod lol.


    This is a close-up of my engine bay with the S-VCM controller installed. Can you see it? I bet she can't either. (It's under the engine cover.)

    The small black wire passing across the middle of the picture in front of the throttle body is the giveaway to a well-trained eye that this engine isn't 100% factory stock. My wife (who knows the thing is there) couldn't identify that wire as out of place. No chance.

    I understand that you might be hesitant to invest in this if your Ody is not necessarily part of your long-term future. But if you decide to keep it, a VCM disable device is a worthwhile accessory on these vans. The passive ones (like the VCMuzzler and MaxMuzzler) don't even have the tell-tale wire.
    Last edited by CroMath; 04-24-2019 at 05:16 PM.
    2015 EX - Shear Comfort seat covers, Husky Liners floor liners, OEM cargo liner, S-VCM, Street Guardian dashcam, Lubegard Red

    There is no contradiction in having a soft heart and a hard mind.

  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jc_Ody View Post
    ... It seems to do it all the time maybe worse when the ECO light is on. I can almost guarantee my wife will not allow this mod lol....
    Has your wife done the research on VCM? I'm guessing not. You can drink the Honda kool-aid and pretend that VCM isn't the issue or you can plug in a MaxMuzzler (get it from Maxud on this forum) and give it a shot. You will prevent major issues down the road and probably solve your immediate problems. As mentioned above, it's 100% reversible (takes 30 seconds) to remove it should you desire. I can guarantee you won't want to.

    The VCMTunerII is a much better device but the MaxMuzzler and VCMuzzler are less expensive and great devices and will save you major headaches down the road.
    2008 Odyssey Touring-Silver
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  16. #29
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    Thanks everyone for the responses! I hope the OP doesn’t mind the hijacked thread lol


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  17. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CroMath View Post
    As for changing the spark plugs early, I'd say maybe. It would be best to pull a couple out for inspection (like cylinders 3 and 4) and see how they look before spending the time and money to change them all early. I'd also leave the S-VCM controller active all the time - it's my opinion and experience that not much good comes from letting VCM operate normally.
    Thanks for the excellent explanation and advice! When standing at the front of the van looking towards the windshield - which cylinders/spark plugs are the ones that are most likely to be fouled due to VCM - the two closest to the firewall?

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