2016 ExL Piston Rings to be replaced at 62k !!!
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Thread: 2016 ExL Piston Rings to be replaced at 62k !!!

  1. #1
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    Unhappy 2016 ExL Piston Rings to be replaced at 62k !!!

    Started the van and it was running very rough with lots of lights on the dash. I got back home to investigate and could not find anything. Taking it to a nearby dealer to find that the Piston Rings had rotated and cylinders 1,2,3, and 4 had to have new ones, oil is leaking and fouling the plugs. Why not 5 & 6? I was told they don't fire as much as 1 to 4. They filed a request to Honda to possibly cover the repair, saying it could possibly be covered at 90%! I get a call saying that it will be $220 out of pocket, and then abruptly says that no, it's 80%, so it will be $440. I respond with thanks and inquire about getting a copy of the document for the vehicle records and am told that there is information there that is not available to me. I also request there must be some sort of extended warranty coVering this issue. We are a one vehicle couple. It's been two weeks now and head gaskets are not to be found in the entire USA! I was also told they see about 1 Piston ring job a week! Should I head off into the sunset and get a new Ody? Time will tell! Comments welcome d!

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    Welcome to Odyclub! Sorry to meet you under these circumstances. I'm super happy to hear that at least some of the work is being covered by Honda though.

    You're already aware of the bad news, but let me give you some more good news - once your van is fixed, you can make it so that this never happens again.

    There are lots of good threads here describing the details of what is going on - it's a well-known problem around here. In a nutshell, your dealer is giving you the Honda-approved smokescreen about the piston rings - its not the rings. It's the VCM (the system that shuts down cylinders in order to save fuel). It's a good idea but not a well-sorted system in this generation of Odysseys. Do not waste your time getting into a discussion with your dealer about this - just listen politely, smile and nod and see through the shuck and jive. They're doing the best they can with the explanation and doing a proper fix. Be firm about getting as much of the cost covered by Honda as you can. They know all about this.

    The only surefire way to prevent this from happening again is to disable VCM. VCM depends on knowing that the engine is fully warmed up to know that its OK to shut down cylinders. So if you fool the engine computer into thinking that the engine never quite warms up fully, VCM never kicks in and the van runs on all 6 cylinders all the time. It is a perfectly safe thing to do and harmless to the engine. There are thousands of people who have had this for years (including me) and it is great.

    If your Ody is otherwise serving you well, you should keep it and disable VCM. The current state of the art in disabling devices is called a VCMTuner II. Other very good options are S-VCM controller, VCMuzzler II or MaxMuzzler. You can Google any of these terms and they should come right up.

    Feel free to read up and ask questions - we tend to be a friendly bunch at Odyclub.
    Last edited by CroMath; 04-16-2019 at 09:52 AM.
    2015 EX - Shear Comfort seat covers, Husky Liners floor liners, OEM cargo liner, S-VCM, Street Guardian dashcam, Lubegard Red

    There is no contradiction in having a soft heart and a hard mind.

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    Soooo... if it's disabled, will this affect mileage? I can easily get 24 mpg on the highway.

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    Here are just a couple of probably dozens of threads about the piston ring problems stemming from the VCM debacle.
    It's a damn shame that a 2016 model with relatively low mileage is having this issue already, and even more a shame that they are asking for payment too. There really needs to be a new class action lawsuit to have Honda fix these engines and their flawed design.
    https://www.odyclub.com/forums/54-20...placement.html

    https://www.odyclub.com/forums/54-20...ssey-ex-l.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by nola50 View Post
    Soooo... if it's disabled, will this affect mileage? I can easily get 24 mpg on the highway.
    It really depends on how and where you drive. Most people around here report a decrease in mileage of about 1 mpg or less. Many people report no change (this is where I fall), while a few have even seen their mileage go up.

    To be honest, I don't think 24 mpg on the highway is all that good - I have VCM disabled on my van and I can pull 27-28 mpg on the highway without even trying on any given day. If the weather and traffic line up nicely for me, I can get over 30 mpg. Maybe having your engine cleaned up and the PCM reset isn't the worst thing in the world. You will get a chance to re-train the computer and the van will run much more smoothly and responsively after you disable VCM no matter how or where you drive.
    Last edited by CroMath; 04-16-2019 at 11:49 AM.
    2015 EX - Shear Comfort seat covers, Husky Liners floor liners, OEM cargo liner, S-VCM, Street Guardian dashcam, Lubegard Red

    There is no contradiction in having a soft heart and a hard mind.

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    That’s great that they are willing to cover 80%, but I’d very politely ask that they cover 100%. You are barely out of the warranty period. Let them know you are aware of a class action lawsuit where this issue was covered 100% as part of a settlement that an extended the warranty of model years older than yours. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to ask why older vans and their respective owners are getting better treatment than you. Obviously it’s because the lawsuit didn’t cover your model year yet, but it’s clear you have the exact same issue.

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    I got the call that it's ready. I asked about if there is a break in period and I was told no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nola50 View Post
    I got the call that it's ready. I asked about if there is a break in period and I was told no.
    That's wrong! The new rings need a chance to wear in properly, just like in a brand-new engine. Don't beat on it right away.

    Also, if you are inclined to follow the advice to get a VCM disable device, it would actually help the break-in process because you'd be sure that all the cylinders were firing all the time and equally.
    Last edited by CroMath; 04-16-2019 at 06:55 PM.
    2015 EX - Shear Comfort seat covers, Husky Liners floor liners, OEM cargo liner, S-VCM, Street Guardian dashcam, Lubegard Red

    There is no contradiction in having a soft heart and a hard mind.

  11. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nola50 View Post
    Started the van and it was running very rough with lots of lights on the dash. I got back home to investigate and could not find anything. Taking it to a nearby dealer to find that the Piston Rings had rotated and cylinders 1,2,3, and 4 had to have new ones, oil is leaking and fouling the plugs. Why not 5 & 6? I was told they don't fire as much as 1 to 4. They filed a request to Honda to possibly cover the repair, saying it could possibly be covered at 90%! I get a call saying that it will be $220 out of pocket, and then abruptly says that no, it's 80%, so it will be $440. I respond with thanks and inquire about getting a copy of the document for the vehicle records and am told that there is information there that is not available to me. I also request there must be some sort of extended warranty coVering this issue. We are a one vehicle couple. It's been two weeks now and head gaskets are not to be found in the entire USA! I was also told they see about 1 Piston ring job a week! Should I head off into the sunset and get a new Ody? Time will tell! Comments welcome d!
    So you are in the process of getting hosed by Honda and would still consider getting another Odyssey? They're still using VCM. As much as I like the Odyssey I wouldn't buy another one because of plenty of other issues. I haven't seen any internal engine problems at 55,000 miles but the suspension, transmission, brakes and steering are all substandard. This is my wife's car and I'll be glad when I can get her into something else.
    2015 Honda Odyssey EX-L

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    nola50, I would be curious about the primary kind of driving you do? Mostly highway, mostly city, mostly suburban?

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    I find it hard to believe they are asking you to pay anything at all. Push hard for no out of pocket. They know there is no way you should be paying.

    After you get the vehicle back, buy a VCMTunerII (or VCMuzzler, MaxMuzzler, etc.,) install it and don't give it another thought. You'll get many more trouble-free miles from your van.

    As a side note--Honda isn't the only one with this issue. I've been reading about the GM vehicles with a similar system where hydraulic lifters fail and require engine tear down. On those there is a programming fix that can be done (aftermarket) to disable the system. On our vehicles there is no way to program it out. The VCM Muzzling devices are the only fix.
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    Our 2016 ex-l with 48k is at the dealer as we speak. Went in for the 3rd time for highway speed vibrations, clicking over bumps or turning. First it was our tires were bad. Got new ones. Then they said those were bad. Took them back and upgraded the tires. Still doing it. We have a Honda care extended warranty luckily. They’ve replaced the engine mounts and steering column, not fixed. Now they’re installing new drive axles. This is not the experience with Honda that I anticipated when I bought it new. We drive suburban mixed highway most of the time. Some morning commute traffic and sitting in line at schools for pickups. Usually take 1 or 2 long road trips a year as well. We do have several major road work projects surrounding our home and the roads are quite rough in spots. From what I’m reading the VCM is not good but I don’t want to void my warranty by installing a muzzler. My wife would be even more hesitant than me lol!


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    NOLA - I'm using VCM muzzler here in NOLA on my 2008 EXL

    Obviously mine wasn't one of the problem vehicles, however the VCM makes me nervous and still running it doesn't rule out future problems, rotation, premature wear etc.

    Has been eight months now, no downsides to note of I can confirm it works great!

    5 minutes to fit - and Jc_Ody you can disconnect it as it's plug and play basically, and the dealer will not know you ever ran it if you are nervous, However the law states that they have to prove that the mod did specific damage to void your warranty.
    See Magnuson Moss Act.

    Thousands of happy muzzlers and no reports that I have ever seen or heard of in this forum of any type of problem vcm related.

    Honda are very aware of the problem with the VCM, premature wear and ring rotation! Why do they still run it, Do 1mpg savings get them through the gov mileage rules? I know those vehicles that kill the engine at stoplights are doing this to increase mileage but the trade off is that starter motors are now wearing out with regularity.

    fyi - class action lawsuit on earlier models I just caught this outpatient post mentioning>
    https://www.odyclub.com/forums/54-20...ssey-ex-l.html

    Last edited by mashley; 04-18-2019 at 11:44 AM.
    2008 EXL, Purchased @145,000 miles, Fitted OEM Aisin timing belt kit & water pump, Tranny Valvoline Maxlife 3x change, then onto Amsoil multivehicle, VCM Muzzler fitted, Brakes-fluid flushed all round, Penzoil Platinum plus 5w/20, NAPA (Wick) Platinum oil filter, Air filter, Phillips 9012LL/HIR11LL 12v 55w lowbeam bulbs (modified bases to fit = twice as bright!) Aerospace 303 Protectant on plastics as recommended by Honda NOT Armorall which damages! Magnefine inline filter on transmission line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jc_Ody View Post
    Our 2016 ex-l with 48k is at the dealer as we speak. Went in for the 3rd time for highway speed vibrations, clicking over bumps or turning. First it was our tires were bad. Got new ones. Then they said those were bad. Took them back and upgraded the tires. Still doing it. We have a Honda care extended warranty luckily. They’ve replaced the engine mounts and steering column, not fixed. Now they’re installing new drive axles. This is not the experience with Honda that I anticipated when I bought it new. We drive suburban mixed highway most of the time. Some morning commute traffic and sitting in line at schools for pickups. Usually take 1 or 2 long road trips a year as well. We do have several major road work projects surrounding our home and the roads are quite rough in spots. From what I’m reading the VCM is not good but I don’t want to void my warranty by installing a muzzler. My wife would be even more hesitant than me lol!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Are the highway speed vibrations due to the VCM operating? My 2017 has an audible drone noise and vibrates some when VCM is active. My wife didn’t notice it until I pointed it out to her. I had to muzzle it after I noticed or I was going to lose my mind, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mashley View Post
    Honda are very aware of the problem with the VCM, premature wear and ring rotation! Why do they still run it, Do 1mpg savings get them through the gov mileage rules? I know those vehicles that kill the engine at stoplights are doing this to increase mileage but the trade off is that starter motors are now wearing out with regularity.


    [/I]
    There literally is only one reason manufacturers are messing with shutting off cylinders, auto-stop, etc. It's called the EPA and their CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) requirements. Squeezing an extra mile or two mpg out of their high volume models allows them to sell more of the highly profitable Crossovers and SUVs. The EPA, as a government agency, has a crazy amount of power within it's policies and isn't even legislated. Each administration directs the EPA as they see fit, so naturally there can be a significant difference in how aggressively they push certain agendas from one administration to the next.
    30 year career of car sales and related industry - Part Time Detailer
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    2007 EX-L NAV RES Slate Green Metallic - purchased May 2013 with 113K now 200K+

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