Timing Belt Recall - My Own Personal Pre-Inspection
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Thread: Timing Belt Recall - My Own Personal Pre-Inspection

  1. #1
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    Timing Belt Recall - My Own Personal Pre-Inspection

    Hi All
    I just removed the timing belt covers on both of the head sprocket covers to do my own little inspection.

    After getting them removed I noted NO visual timing belt degradation. HOWEVER. I noted that there is approximately 1/2" - 3-4" of deflection, from slack in the timing belt. It looks as though the belt tensioner was not set properly during the engine assembly process.

    It is also entirely possible that the belt has stretched this much from internal stresses and the belt shows no external damage to the nitrile jacket yet, but is actually stretching beyond acceptable limits.

    With this high out of specification deflection, this 2019 EX-L at 7100 miles needs another trip to the dealership to inspect/replace this timing belt.


    I advise vigilance on this item to prevent an accident or other damages in case the belt should fail.

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    Were you able to find the code number that may or may not be the defective part? Page 12 of this TSB lists the number(s) and/or codes you should look for and what they mean. You can't go by looks alone at the belt or the slack.



    Service Bulletin 19-045

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    LS973800

    No. I wasn't interested in looking for the LOT code on the belt when I found the belt tension out of specification. It doesn't matter what the code is when the belt is slack out of spec. The conditions exist where the belt can jump timing when slack.

    My van will return back to the dealer service department for the 15th time JUST because the belt is slack out of spec and they can roll the motor with a socket wrench and find the code. But they WILL be ending up with a belt installed with the correct tensioning no matter what else is determined with the belt recall deltas.

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    What is the specification for the belt slack? How much is yours out of spec?

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    LS93780

    Any slack in the timing belt that causes deflection is not acceptable.

    A reference for those interested:

    https://www.pfeiferindustries.com/in...t-installation

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    Triaque, could this anomaly cause the rattle noise that other members and I think is coming from our transmissions? A few other 9-speed members have questioned whether the rattle noise is engine or transmission related. What you are saying fits.

    My service tech removed the serpentine belt and drove my van around the yard. (I know that's not the same belt to which you are referring.) The noise was gone. It was only when he put the belt back on that the rattle returned. In his own words he said, "The van is dead quiet without the serpentine belt connected. It's only when it's reconnected and the engine is put under load that the rattle occurs." If what you are saying is correct, it may be the solution to my noise problem.

    Please let us know what the dealer says. Thanks for spotting this !
    2018 Odyssey EX, that still has a rattly transmission. Honda says I can't have a compass, and to stop being so cheap and buy a cell phone with a data plan!!

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    Hodna
    If the noise is ONLY present when the external serpentine belt is installed, then it is the external serpentine drive belt system.

    The reason I say "system" is due to multiple things that can go wrong to cause rattling with the external serpentine belt system. Did you read the section in the link I posted on belt and pulley misalignment??? I'd go back and carefully read that if you didn't. There are signs of wear you can look for if that is the case..

    The next thing will be shocking and you may not believe me when I say it, so ready yourself. HONDA quite possibly installed a brand spanking new serpentine belt tensioner pulley on our engines that is out of spec right out of the big ole vendor parts bin. IMAGINE .....perfect ole Honda sending something out from the factory with it broken right out of the gate..... Here is something to look at to verify the tensioner being out of spec. On the coil spring housing there is a cylindrical enclosure that contains the coil spring and will rotate slightly along with the serpentine belt tensioning pulley under vehicle dynamics. There is a rectangular embossed box along its edge with "tic" marks in it. Then next to this embossed box, across from it yet on the stationary tensioner bracket portion will be a raised arrow cast in the aluminum of the tensioner bracket. This arrow should be dead in the center of the embossed markings while the engine isles and will move slightly when you race the motor. Take a look and see if this indication is outside the marks during idling OR if the arrow moves to the extreme end when the engine is raced/reved up. I expect if this mark is out of spec in either case you'll get a "kettle chortling" noise from it. If you're getting a chirping sound let me know. I have another story for that.

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    Registered User DJVAN's Avatar
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    Triaque, I am with you on the serpentine belt and tensioner pulley my went out quite a few months ago, here is the post: https://www.odyclub.com/forums/81-20...ml#post2291309

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    DJVAN

    I'm going to look at my serpentine belt drive tensioner pulley again tomorrow. I think it has the deep grooves and paint all worn off as well. Just hit 9k miles. I'd like to post a photo if you'll look and see what you think I'd appreciate it. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triaque View Post
    LS93780

    Any slack in the timing belt that causes deflection is not acceptable.

    A reference for those interested:

    https://www.pfeiferindustries.com/in...t-installation
    Here's the problem....your timing belt tension is held by a hydraulic tensioner. It is not "set" manually as many of the older timing belt systems are. Have you ever replaced a timing belt? If you haven't there's no way you can know what the tension is supposed to be. You need to put a socket on the crank pulley and turn the engine by hand, clockwise, and then check the tension. This will allow all the slack to be on the tensioner side and the tensioner will take it up. When the engine shuts off on its own it's not uncommon for it to come to its own natural resting position and can leave a little slack in the belt in places--not much of course, but just a slight amount. As soon as the engine rotates, the tensioner takes up the slack again and all is good. Aside from the TSB issues, I'm willing to bet your belt is fine.
    2008 Odyssey Touring-Silver
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    John Clark

    Yep. I've changed several Honda product only timing belts. I'm going to verify if you know your stuff on whether these v6's have a hydraulic tensioner. I have a suspicion that what is specific to the Honda 3.5 in the Odyssey is a spring tensioner assembly because the actual tensioner pulley still has a bolt right through the middle of it behind a rubber access pop out cover and it's used to release the pulley and rotate, and retighten as it's been done for years. But if I find out what the case is, either way. 1/2"-3/4" of belt play is unacceptable. Even if it's only tensioned by engine oil pressure.

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    Triaque, you make perfect sense. There's one side of my story I forgot to mention.

    A month or so after I bought my van, I took it back to the dealer to have the rattle noise investigated. That was the time the head service tech drove the car around the lot with the serpentine belt removed. On the off chance the noise was coming from a noisy idler, I asked for a new one to be installed. The dealer did both - belt and idler. I used to service all my Ford F250 trucks - the good old days of carburetors. I became a master at setting those things up. So, I was versed on engine servicing.

    I asked to see my old idler pulley before they tossed it in the bin. It had at least 1/8 inch of deflection on the outer circumference. It's as though the bearing was completely shot. My van only had about 2,500 km on it. The service tech even said that he only sees this amount of wear at around 100,000 km. I asked to see the new idler before he installed it. There was a fair amount of play on the outer circumference - although a lot less. To me, that meant the idler pulley was defective. At 2,500 km, there should be zero difference between a new pulley and the factory one! I've changed several of these pulleys over the years and have NEVER seen any play in an idler pulley. I understand the new ones are more of a clutch type? Perhaps there is some play? Somehow I doubt it. Any wobble in a pulley will cause noise, even belt slap.

    As another side note, my head service tech swapped out my alternator with two new ones from two different Odysseys on the lot - both never driven. No change. He finally thew his arms in the air and said he had no idea why that noise was there. He only mentioned that it was there under load.

    Your ideas are making me think my 9-speed is fine, except for the occasional moment of indecision, and that the rattle noise is in the serpentine belt circuit. Further thoughts?

    EDIT I will look at those marks you mentioned in your post. Please accept my thanks !
    2018 Odyssey EX, that still has a rattly transmission. Honda says I can't have a compass, and to stop being so cheap and buy a cell phone with a data plan!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triaque View Post
    DJVAN
    I'm going to look at my serpentine belt drive tensioner pulley again tomorrow. I think it has the deep grooves and paint all worn off as well. Just hit 9k miles. I'd like to post a photo if you'll look and see what you think I'd appreciate it. Thanks
    Post away, I would have posted the pictures I had, the pictures turned out to dark to see anything, should have used my camera instead of using smartphone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triaque View Post
    John Clark

    Yep. I've changed several Honda product only timing belts. I'm going to verify if you know your stuff on whether these v6's have a hydraulic tensioner. I have a suspicion that what is specific to the Honda 3.5 in the Odyssey is a spring tensioner assembly because the actual tensioner pulley still has a bolt right through the middle of it behind a rubber access pop out cover and it's used to release the pulley and rotate, and retighten as it's been done for years. But if I find out what the case is, either way. 1/2"-3/4" of belt play is unacceptable. Even if it's only tensioned by engine oil pressure.
    Unfortunately, it's you doesn't know their stuff. I have changed a half a dozen of these Honda J35 timing belts just in the last year. The bolt behind the rubber cover you refer to is the idler pulley. The hydraulic tensioner is on the other side, the rear side, and is a small 1" piston that sticks out the rear of the timing cover.
    2008 Odyssey Touring-Silver
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    John Clark

    I left it open that I may not have the latest on the new engines but you were not forthcoming with details.

    I was discussing the belt slackness at the dealership yesterday April 23, and the service manager said that the fluid filled cylinder is not using engine oil pressure to charge it.

    The service manager also said that there should not be 1/2"-3/4" of slack in the off idler side of the belt even with the engine off. He asked me to set an appointment to have his lead tech examine it because he's concerned about that much slack.

    Thanks for your equal concern and willingness to help myself and others on this forum with your openness and willingness to share.

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