05' Odyssey runs rough and sluggish.

Odyssey2005 · Oct 23, 2004

It's been exactly a month now since we bought this Odyssey and so far so good we don't have any problem except it seems the engine runs rougher and a little bit sluggish. Do you guys think it could be the regular gasoline w/ 87 octane we're puttin on and also the cold weather we are getting on pacific northwest. By the way I'm using Shell gasoline. Please let me know If your Odyssey doing the same thing. Probably I'll switch to a higher octane or a different brand of gas. What do you guys think?
Thanks.....

adam1991 · Oct 23, 2004

The octane level of the fuel has nothing to do with whether it runs sluggish or not.

You might have gotten some bad gas. Maybe you should run a few tanks of gas from somewhere else. Run your current tank as low as you dare, then put in some other name-brand gas and see what happens.

If that doesn't fix it, take it to the dealer.

BenjiBoy168 · Oct 23, 2004

Doesn't sound normal. Adam is right, use another station but use 87 octane - that's what Honda called for so that's what you should use. It would be ridiculous to buy an Odyssey and have to put 91/93 in it all the time (because the selling point over the Sienna is that it uses regular where the Sienna uses premium). If another station's 87 doesn't cure it bring it to the dealer for sure. Does it have VCM?

CruiseMaster · Oct 23, 2004

I have a 2005 Honda Odyssey Touring NAV & RES on order, and all that my Odyssey will get is Shell V-Power (premium gas). I currently have a 2002 Ford Windstar and I have tried running 87, and my engine knocks and pings, and dont put out as much power. When I run 87 octane, I have noticed that it "downshifts" ALOT MORE going up hills, which ups your rpm's and uses more gas. When I run premium fuel, I may pay more at the pump, but my engine DONT ping or knock, and I can go up most hills without even downshifting, which means lower rpm's which calculates to more miles per gallon.
Jeff

adam1991 · Oct 23, 2004

But Jeff, your Windstar has nothing to do with your new Odyssey.

Higher octane gas is not "better" gas. Octane level is purely a rating of the gasoline's ability to resist preignition.

In fact, in a well maintained and tuned engine that was designed for 87 octane fuel, you will get LESS energy from higher octane gas.

Your Odyssey was designed for 87 octane fuel. It'll be new out of the factory. Use that gas, and watch what happens.

You aren't doing yourself or your van any "favors" by using a higher octane gas.

As a car ages, it might get carbon deposits in the fuel system and combustion chambers, carbon deposits that retain heat and which cause premature ignition of the fuel. In that case, a higher octane fuel will solve the problem. So yes, as a car ages, you might switch to a higher octane fuel.

Whatever you do, don't compare an old Windstar to a new Odyssey. Hell, don't compare a *new* Windstar to a new Odyssey. They aren't comparable at all.

Guest · Oct 23, 2004

the gas must be really really bad to cause a VTEC engine to run rough and uneven and slugish. I would just take it back to the dealer to have this figured out.

CruiseMaster · Oct 23, 2004

Adam,

I have drove enough cars to know what runs better. I am not saying I know everything, but I have talked to alot of people who have different makes and models of cars. I have a family member that has a Dodge Dakota, his truck dont run good on 87 octane either. His engine pings and knocks. I have another family member that has a Honda CR-V and her engine pings and knocks. When using higher octane, you dont hear the pinging and knocking. I have tried 87 & 93 and truthfully, I get "better fuel economy" using the premium gas. One of my best friends is a mechanic, and has worked at Penske Truck Leasing for 19 years, he uses only premium gas in his vehicles as well. Everyone has different taste, and thats why there are so many choices in the world as far as different brands of gas, to different brands of drinks & foods. So comparing a old or new Windstar has nothing to do with it. When comparing a Honda engine (in a Honda CR-V thats designed to run on 87) why does it ping and knock? Why does it achieve better fuel economy when using premium gas? Why does the engine not downshift as much when going up a hill when using premium fuel? Truthfully, I am a premium kinda guy, everything I go to get, or do, I buy the name brand stuff, for example, medication, you have generic, or the name brand. While the generic is cheaper, and may work the same, I stick with the name brand.............I know alot of what I just said has nothing to do with a Odyssey, but I was just stating my own personal opinion and how I feel about gas. As far as me, I will stick to Shell V-Power
Jeff

Guest · Oct 23, 2004

Odyssey2005 said:
It's been exactly a month now since we bought this Odyssey and so far so good we don't have any problem except it seems the engine runs rougher and a little bit sluggish. Do you guys think it could be the regular gasoline w/ 87 octane we're puttin on and also the cold weather we are getting on pacific northwest. By the way I'm using Shell gasoline. Please let me know If your Odyssey doing the same thing. Probably I'll switch to a higher octane or a different brand of gas. What do you guys think?
Thanks.....

I have been complaining about abnormal idle ever since I got my 05 ex. I even took it to the dealer... they did hear what I call a "hiccup" but nothing showed up in any of the tests....

I have tried a can of chevron techron and that seems to make it better... also I have used 93 octane and have felt a much smoother idle without any "hiccups"

i suspect poor gas from our local refinery here in memphis...
while it is a vtec.. honda has designed engines for extreme emission controls...
i have heard about high sulfur content in US gasoline which will soon be low enough to allow for GDI (gas direct injection)... and hopefully make non-GDIs run better

BenjiBoy168 · Oct 23, 2004

CruiseMaster said:
Adam,

I have drove enough cars to know what runs better. I am not saying I know everything, but I have talked to alot of people who have different makes and models of cars. I have a family member that has a Dodge Dakota, his truck dont run good on 87 octane either. His engine pings and knocks. I have another family member that has a Honda CR-V and her engine pings and knocks. When using higher octane, you dont hear the pinging and knocking. I have tried 87 & 93 and truthfully, I get "better fuel economy" using the premium gas. One of my best friends is a mechanic, and has worked at Penske Truck Leasing for 19 years, he uses only premium gas in his vehicles as well. Everyone has different taste, and thats why there are so many choices in the world as far as different brands of gas, to different brands of drinks & foods. So comparing a old or new Windstar has nothing to do with it. When comparing a Honda engine (in a Honda CR-V thats designed to run on 87) why does it ping and knock? Why does it achieve better fuel economy when using premium gas? Why does the engine not downshift as much when going up a hill when using premium fuel? Truthfully, I am a premium kinda guy, everything I go to get, or do, I buy the name brand stuff, for example, medication, you have generic, or the name brand. While the generic is cheaper, and may work the same, I stick with the name brand.............I know alot of what I just said has nothing to do with a Odyssey, but I was just stating my own personal opinion and how I feel about gas. As far as me, I will stick to Shell V-Power
Jeff

If everybody's car does it, it is quite obviously a gas issue. My Accord F23A1 has almost 120K on it and does not ping or knock whatsoever on 87 fuel. Same with my dads Camry with 160K.

adam1991 · Oct 23, 2004

Agreed.

Jeff and his family/friends are buying bad gas from the same place. Worse, Jeff is basing his decision based on one gas retailer. Not very scientific--and it's wasting him money, too.

I guess if I were in the business of selling gas, I might crud up my cheaper stuff to make it look like the more expensive stuff is better--

--and hope that the customers don't go somewhere else and discover that the competition's cheaper stuff actually works just fine...

Guest · Oct 23, 2004

Late model Hondas and most new cars won't knock or ping because they have knock sensors that retard ignition if knock is detected, even before you can feel it.

Odyssey2005 · Oct 23, 2004

Thanks guys for all your help. It might be the Shell gas station where I'm putting gas are not really a true Shell gasoline or maybe an aftermarket one who knows right...... I'll just try a different Shell gas station from now on. I know I remember that after that compliment free full tank of gas from the dealer I accidentally used the Shell V-power cause at that time I didn't know that Odyssey takes regular unleaded. Probably that's where I get the feeling of smoothness of the engine. Well if that's the case...I'll just use it alternate on every fill up. We'll see if that will work.

Workbox · Oct 23, 2004

I but Chevron premium, this thing is scary fast. I was passing to get to the off ramp and before I knew it I really had to put the brakes on. When I am going a certain speed, it feels half that speed. I believe that the dealer may put the lowest grade gas at first, but if you add plus or premium, you may notice a differnce. Go to Chevron.

BenjiBoy168 · Oct 23, 2004

The dealer puts the lowest grade gas I'm sure, and I'm not appalled by that. That's because Honda calls for 86 or higher and the lowest you can find nowadays is 87. So don't blame dealers.

Workbox · Oct 23, 2004

I thought the handbook indicates 89 or higher? But could be wrong, can somebody check the handbook. I'm fighting with a 1 year and the keayboard, and she is wining.

adam1991 · Oct 23, 2004

Workbox said:
I but Chevron premium, this thing is scary fast. I was passing to get to the off ramp and before I knew it I really had to put the brakes on. When I am going a certain speed, it feels half that speed. I believe that the dealer may put the lowest grade gas at first, but if you add plus or premium, you may notice a differnce. Go to Chevron.

Chevron the brand may make a difference, but octane level will not.

Of course the dealer puts 87 octane in. But that's not a "grade" of gas per se; it says nothing about the *quality* of the gasoline, only its ability to resist preignition. That's all octane means.

Moving to a higher octane gas does NOT "add power" to your car if your car was designed for 87 octane fuel--as the Odyssey is.

If you think that your speed experience had anything to do with using higher octane fuel, think again. The Odyssey is just plain wicked fast, period.

Guest · Oct 24, 2004

adam1991 said:
Chevron the brand may make a difference, but octane level will not.

Of course the dealer puts 87 octane in. But that's not a "grade" of gas per se; it says nothing about the *quality* of the gasoline, only its ability to resist preignition. That's all octane means.

Moving to a higher octane gas does NOT "add power" to your car if your car was designed for 87 octane fuel--as the Odyssey is.

If you think that your speed experience had anything to do with using higher octane fuel, think again. The Odyssey is just plain wicked fast, period.

honda does say that premium gas provides better performance...

page 311 of the 05 manual:

Towing a Trailer
You may want to fill the fuel tank with premium fuel. Premium fuel provides improved performance

It does not say exactly how.. better torque, hp, cooler temp. etc

I think honda cannot explicitly say premium gives better performance outright... maybe for marketing, envir, cost of ownership reasons...
so they sneak it in under towing recomendations...

RacerRik · Oct 24, 2004

adam1991 said:
Moving to a higher octane gas does NOT "add power" to your car if your car was designed for 87 octane fuel--as the Odyssey is.

I completely agree with this statement...however, as stated in amitdas91' spost "Honda does say that premium gas provides better performance."

That proves that the Odyssey's engine was in fact designed for premium fuel. That, plus the 10.0 to 1 compression ratio which is too high for 87 octane fuel.

Honda is just being a bit tricky with their marketing techniques... advertising the use of non-premium fuel and then relying on the knock sensor to prevent engine damage.

lvgordo · Oct 24, 2004

RacerRik said:
That proves that the Odyssey's engine was in fact designed for premium fuel. That, plus the 10.0 to 1 compression ratio which is too high for 87 octane fuel.

Honda is just being a bit tricky with their marketing techniques... advertising the use of non-premium fuel and then relying on the knock sensor to prevent engine damage.

i think the comment about the compression is very perceptive.

However, if you filled up with Premium vs Regular you would save what, like $4? depending on how much you drive, we fill up every 2 or 3 weeks, so it may save us $70-100 per year (probably not alot of money for people who can afford a $30K+ vehicle) which relatively not alot of money, like 8 less pizzas per year. So to base that as an advertising ploy doesnt hold much water but i am sure is a big selling point that Honda uses, which just goes to show that advertising is nothing more than perception manipulation.

adam1991 · Oct 24, 2004

Um, you should read up on how towing extra weight affects the engine.

For towing, a higher octane fuel does indeed improve performance--because towing is a completely different environment than driving the kids around without a trailer attached.

They didn't "sneak" anything in anywhere.

You all want to believe, really believe, that octane=power, and that the Ody engine was designed differently than it really was.

05' Odyssey runs rough and sluggish.

Odyssey2005

adam1991

BenjiBoy168

CruiseMaster

adam1991

Guest

CruiseMaster

Guest

BenjiBoy168

adam1991

Guest

Odyssey2005

Workbox

BenjiBoy168

Workbox

adam1991

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RacerRik

lvgordo

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