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05' Odyssey runs rough and sluggish.

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#21 ·
adam1991 said:
Um, you should read up on how towing extra weight affects the engine.

For towing, a higher octane fuel does indeed improve performance--because towing is a completely different environment than driving the kids around without a trailer attached.

They didn't "sneak" anything in anywhere.

You all want to believe, really believe, that octane=power, and that the Ody engine was designed differently than it really was.
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they have been sneaky for years now!

dont believe me then how about an honda V6 engineer:
The Accord V-6 ratings assume regular-grade fuel, and Honda will market it as a regular-fuel engine. But — pssst — it's good for another 10 hp and 10-plus lbs.-ft. on premium , acknowledges V-6 engineer Asaki.
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all of the latest honda v6s are designed to take advantage of premium fuel.
 
#22 ·
That is correct, octane does not matter if you have power or not. Just might clean some bad stuff out of the system. Either way the van is fast when i had regular gas, that is why I am suprised that the van runs sluggish.
 
#24 ·
I used to have a turbocharged Sunbird with a boost gauge. It was one of the first cars with anti-knock sensor and it specified ONLY 91 gas. Under normal driving condition, there were no differences in performance between 87 vs 91 gas. Even the gas mileages are identical. The only exception is when at full throttle and ONLY if I was looking at the boost gauge. The "feel" (rush?) is the same but with 87 gas, I only get 12 lbs of boost max while 91 gas gets about 15 lbs. I'm sure on a drag strip, I would have seen maybe a half second gain with 91 gas but not by "the seat of the pants". I put over 150,000 miles on that car before the car was totalled (t-boned in the Sierra during a snow storm) and not once did I hear any pinging. And I heard a lot of pinging before that car; I had a sightly modified Camaro that pinged even with 91 gas. Since the sunbird, I've only used premium gas if I'm heading to the Sierra where the car/van will need the extra cooling of the higher octane gas. Otherwise, it's always 87 gas. If your new 05 Odyssey feels slugish, I'd suggest bringing it back to the dealer for a good checkup. My 05 is so smooth that I had to stop quickly more than a few times because I was playing with the controls and didn't noticed I was going over 80+. And 80+ is way too fast in th SF bay area! It's a good thing I don't have the NAV option to play with!
 
#25 ·
80+ in the bay is normal - my dad does that everyday (but only on 280 and in the east bay).
 
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#26 ·
amitdas91 said:
they have been sneaky for years now!

dont believe me then how about an honda V6 engineer:

all of the latest honda v6s are designed to take advantage of premium fuel.
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Actually, that was debunked awhile ago.

I can find random quotes to support anything, if I search the net enough.

People believe undocumented things because they want to believe them, nothing more.
 
#27 ·
Workbox said:
That is correct, octane does not matter if you have power or not. Just might clean some bad stuff out of the system.
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The octane rating of the fuel doesn't indicate its ability to clean anything out.

Octane level is purely a measure of the fuel's ability to resist preignition.
 
#30 ·
Not at all. Honda's engineers have made the situation quite plain.

Yet people WANT to believe, desperately, that there's somehow some difference in "premium" fuel other than its increased ability to resist preignition.

People love the snob factor. "*I* buy *premium* gas. <sniff>" As if that's somehow superior to buying "regular" gas. "Regular" gas doesn't sound like it gives you enough bragging rights, apparently.
 
#31 · (Edited by Moderator)
adam1991 said:
Actually, that was debunked awhile ago.

I can find random quotes to support anything, if I search the net enough.

People believe undocumented things because they want to believe them, nothing more.
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tell me how it was debunked... are you telling me the reporter or asaki got it wrong....
you make statements without backing them up...

these are not random quotes this is a honda engineer and also here is another one from the chief designer of the latest accord:

The Nissan Altima, which takes premium fuel for its V6, has been selling like crazy, based largely on its hot acceleration, and Baker says the Accord can just about match it. However, he adds with a smile, if you run premium premium fuel in your Accord you'll get more horsepower, and he's willing to bet it will be an Altima killer.
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from all the information i have read the J30A4 in the 7th gen v6 accord engine has knock sensors which detect knock and advance the timing if premium gas is used.
Most engines are not designed to do this... the 6th gen accord v6 would actually lose power with premium

adam1991 said:

People love the snob factor. "*I* buy *premium* gas. <sniff>" As if that's somehow superior to buying "regular" gas. "Regular" gas doesn't sound like it gives you enough bragging rights, apparently.
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i just spent over $28k buying an 05 ex... thats enough of a snob factor for me....
all my friends get really jealous when i tell them i spend over $100 a year buying premium.. you should see their faces.. :stupid:
 
#32 ·
Then why don't just run race gas or octane booster in the Accord? Wouldn't that mean that instead of just beating the Altima it might also beat up a Corvette or something? It's pointless. Engines don't run rough on regular. They MIGHT run better on premium (heh I doubt it but okay if you say so), but they don't run worse on regular.
 
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#33 ·
BenjiBoy168 said:
Then why don't just run race gas or octane booster in the Accord? Wouldn't that mean that instead of just beating the Altima it might also beat up a Corvette or something? It's pointless. Engines don't run rough on regular. They MIGHT run better on premium (heh I doubt it but okay if you say so), but they don't run worse on regular.
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pointless... yes the chief designer is a fool

are you trying to say if you put in 100 octane you will get a benefit...
the ecu and knock sensor work together... i dont know what the octane window is for the J30A4 but it was designed for 93 and 87 as well...
i am guessing most of you think it must be one or the other.. but in fact the engine will adjust to all octane ratings between.... 87-93
 
#34 ·
amitdas91 said:
tell me how it was debunked... are you telling me the reporter or asaki got it wrong....
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This is actually the first time I've seen a Honda engineer quoted on this issue, and it is something that I have believed based primarily on a test I ran some time ago where I had about a quarter tank of 87 octane in the tank and ran a full throttle run between two marked lines on a freeway offramp. Then, I filled up on 92 octane, drove around for a while to make sure the gas had gotten through the fuel system to the engine.

I reran that same acceleration run, now with an extra hundred pounds of fuel, on the same night and under the same conditions, and got to the second line going a couple of MPH faster.

I can also consistently rip off 7.2 to 7.3 second 0-60 runs on premium fuel, and the performance is noticeably better, by my seat-of-the-pants meter, than when running 87 octane.

The '05 is likely not much different, so if I had to guess, I'd say you will also experience more engine output with the higher octane gas.

Just as an aside, I had a bad experience with Shell gas many years ago and have totally sworn off it. It's amazing how deep these kind of convinctions can run.

Wayne
 
#35 ·
Wayne Lim said:

The '05 is likely not much different, so if I had to guess, I'd say you will also experience more engine output with the higher octane gas.

Just as an aside, I had a bad experience with Shell gas many years ago and have totally sworn off it. It's amazing how deep these kind of convinctions can run.

Wayne
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aaahhh... a voice of reason....
are you sure you are not "believing" all this...

i can definitely feel the difference.. and its just not me... passengers will tell me if the idle is rough or smooth... and thats without them knowing if premium or reg. is in the tank.

hp & possibly torque figures will be increased enough to effect "seat-of-the-pants" tests...

this knock sensor/ecu timing advancement is also in my 02 c230k... the difference between 87 and 93 is even acknowledged by mbusa...
87 only when you cant find premium.. but it will not damage the engine... just less power

Wayne... what have you found to be the best quality gas for honda v6 engines...

also have you done any research on refineries.. from what i have been told... most gas will come from your local refinery its the additives which are added by the different brands which make the difference...

yet i have tried 3 brands of 87 and still have got the same result... something from the refinery?
 
#36 ·
There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears, and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call ... The Premium Zone.
 
#37 ·
Let me add my 2cents without getting into any major fight/ discussion about octane....I've had Hondas since 1987 and have used what was recomended on the users manuals and sure my vehicles run but...there is a BUT here so IMO when I switched over to a higher octane they ran better period.

Now I have an RSX-S and it requieres 91 or better, the wife's Element requieres 87 or better, but when we tow we notice that the engine "pins' ( 5 speed manual by the way) did Honda write the manual for normal use , no loads?....don't know but if spending a few cents more per gallon means better performance, well I'm not wasting my time at the dealer's and having them tell me ....the pinning it's normal...

I hope to get a '05 Ody in the next few weeks and since I'm the designated "gas man" ( I don't want my wife to pump gas c'mon the cars are my responsibility ) ;) I will see how it feels with 87 and then 92...4 cents difference at the pump it's worth the peace of mind.

Variable valve Timing and Electronic lift Control engines love high octane...:D
 
#38 ·
could not resist...
"This highway leads to the shadowy tip of reality: you're on a through route
to the land of the different, the bizarre, the unexplainable...Go as far as
you like on this road. Its limits are only those of mind itself. Ladies and
Gentlemen, you're entering the wondrous dimension of imagination. Next
stop....The VTEC Zone."
 
#39 ·
HEK said:
I hope to get a '05 Ody in the next few weeks and since I'm the designated "gas man" ( I don't want my wife to pump gas c'mon the cars are my responsibility ) ;) I will see how it feels with 87 and then 92...4 cents difference at the pump it's worth the peace of mind.
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87 and 91 are 20 cents apart here. It makes a difference when you drive a total of almost 50K miles a year.
 
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#40 ·
amitdas91 said:
Wayne... what have you found to be the best quality gas for honda v6 engines...

also have you done any research on refineries.. from what i have been told... most gas will come from your local refinery its the additives which are added by the different brands which make the difference...

yet i have tried 3 brands of 87 and still have got the same result... something from the refinery?
Click to expand...
The bad experience I had with Shell gas was many years ago, when it fouled up the fuel injectors on a Volvo 740 Turbo that we used to have. When they were replaced and the mechanic came out, he said that he had seen this from other cars which used Shell gas.

Shortly thereafter, I moved and the nearest and most convenient gas station is a Chevron, so I started using that. Haven't had anything like the injector fouling, but nothing earth-shattering either. What has convinced me to stay with Chevron is after reading several independent sources which have said that the Big Three automakers all bring along their own Chevron gas to use when they do their emissions testing, and they do so even though other major gas makers service the area and Chevon does not.

I can't say that I can tell any idle difference in our Ody and I use all three grades of gasoline: 87 from mid-October through about March, 89 the rest of the year, and 92 when loaded up or on long road trips. The major difference is the amount of throttle input to cause the transmission to unlock in 5th gear, and with 92 octane, our Ody will happily climb 5% freeway grades into the mountains while turning 1800-1900 RPMs, whereas it will never do this with either 87 or 89 octane.

Wayne
 
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