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2001 intermittent no key light , crank but no start

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smokin_blue

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have searched and sifted through many threads. Most all have to do with the key light flashing or staying lit. My issue is a 2001 LX with 181,000 miles (I am original owner). Just recently I started getting intermittent no start issues. The engine cranks but doesn't fire. This can happen repeatedly or just once. Then it may start just fine. I have tried all 3 original keys with no key rings. Still happens. The key sign (sorry bad unintended pun) seems to be if I get any key light at all it is good, the light comes on then goes out and it will start. if I put the key in and don't get a key light it will spin but not start. In that process I never get a key light of any sort.

My thought from reading other threads is it may be the electrical part of the ignition switch is failing to send power to the immobilizer unit.

Can I get some thoughts from the infinite wisdom of this forum?

Thanks!
 
#3 ·
I'm hunting down my own intermittent immobilizer problem on my '99. There may be some things in that thread, related to troubleshooting the main relay and immobilizer circuit that help you.
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/24-19...24-1999-2004-odyssey/294105-immobilizer-flakiness-my-99-ex-voltage-related.html

But from your description, it does not sound like the immobilizer itself is the problem. At the end, when the car cranks but won't start, I can believe that since you did not see the green key light, it is the immo that is cutting fuel. But it sounds like something upstream of that (main relay and ignition switch) is the root cause here. If the immo tried to do its check and failed, the green light would flash at about 1Hz, after initially coming on for 2 seconds and then going off (as it does when the immo test passes). At least some of the power/signals to the immo come from the ignition switch and through the main relay (post #21 in that thread has a labeled circuit diagram), so either one could be the cause.

So I would look upstream of that in your case - either the ignition switch or the main relay. It is not too difficult to remove the main relay and bench test it thoroughly. On the bench vs. in the car, the intermittent failure should become more apparent. And resolder if needed.

Ignition switch can be easily exposed by removing the 3 screws holding the steering column lower cover on. Then wiggle wires, perhaps remove and disassemble, etc. to confirm any problems with the ignition switch.

It seems that different cars have ignition switch vs. main relay problems. In my case, with my '99, I'm on my 4th ignition switch, but have never had a problem with the main relay. It sounds like people in corrosion-prone climates have more main relay issues.
 
#4 ·
Follow the thick wires on the left side of the steering column down to where they plug into the fuse box (big brown connector if memory serves me). Probe this connector for voltage with the key set to on when the car fails to start. See the list below, you don’t care much about the starter voltage seeing it works. Testing the rest will verify your ignition switch. You really only care about the 2 ignition ones but easy to verify the rest. Seeing you have a hard failure when the key light does not come on hopefully you will see an issue.

Vehicle Battery Positive Wire (+): White – always should have 12volts
Vehicle Ignition Wire (+): Black/Yellow – 12 volts when key is in run setting
Vehicle Second Ignition Wire (+): Yellow – 12 volts when key is in run setting
Vehicle Accessory Wire (+): White/Black – 12 volts when key is in accessory setting
Vehicle Starter Wire (+): Black/White – Starter
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the feedback. Oldskewel - your post is an interesting read. I have not seen a voltage issue with my van. I have had batteries or varying capability (and drain due to kids leaving overhead lights on) and living in MN have started my van in some very cold temps where the battery would have to be challenged. My only failure to start was on a day when it was -25F.

Today the van started fine with many attempts. the temperature is dropping back into the cellar again so I am going to just watch it for a bit until it warms up or acts up.

a couple of questions though for Oldskewel. Where is the main relay located physically? Also, you say you are on your 4th ignition switch. Are you referring to the electrical portion of the ignition switch? and why did you have to replace it 4 times? what was failing and what was the symptoms?

thanks again all for your input.
 
#6 ·
smokin_blue said:
Thanks for the feedback. Oldskewel - your post is an interesting read. I have not seen a voltage issue with my van. I have had batteries or varying capability (and drain due to kids leaving overhead lights on) and living in MN have started my van in some very cold temps where the battery would have to be challenged. My only failure to start was on a day when it was -25F.

Today the van started fine with many attempts. the temperature is dropping back into the cellar again so I am going to just watch it for a bit until it warms up or acts up.

a couple of questions though for Oldskewel. Where is the main relay located physically? Also, you say you are on your 4th ignition switch. Are you referring to the electrical portion of the ignition switch? and why did you have to replace it 4 times? what was failing and what was the symptoms?

thanks again all for your input.
Click to expand...
Since I have been unable to cause that immo problem by dropping the voltage, I now think it is correlated, but not the cause of the problem. I also have a voltage gauge in the cigarette lighter port so I can see the battery voltage each time I start. And the problem has now not happened in a while. It happened once after I did a bunch of stuff to hopefully fix it - suggesting all my work did nothing to help. But has not happened since then, ???

To see the main relay, lay on your back in the driver's footwell and look up. Kind of big brown rectangular box, with a white connector interface, on a bracket by itself, with a 7-pin connector going to it.

Ignition switch - yes, 35130-s0x-305, the electrical portion. It wears away and melts, leading to intermittent loss of power to the main relay and other things. It is a well known, common, recalled problem on the early Odysseys. The first time it was replaced under recall at 52k miles, when nothing was actually wrong. Then it failed again at 144k and I bought the part and installed it. Then at 214k it failed again, and I had it replaced under recall/warranty since I had learned that it was a forever recall. I've posted numerous times on the switch, and try to always use that part number - so to see my posts on how to inspect or hot-wire it just search for 35130-s0x-305

Good luck, and let us know what you find - it may be relevant to my immo issues. Really tough to find a problem when it goes away.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
I was considering changing the switch as mentioned in my first post but I have yet to pull the steering column covers to see how hard it is to get to. Can you change the electrical portion with the mechanical portion left in place? It is my understanding that the mechanical portion of the ignition switch is held in place with driveless security screws.
 
#8 ·
smokin_blue said:
I was considering changing the switch as mentioned in my first post but I have yet to pull the steering column covers to see how hard it is to get to. Can you change the electrical portion with the mechanical portion left in place? It is my understanding that the mechanical portion of the ignition switch is held in place with driveless security screws.
Click to expand...
Yes, extremely easy to access the electrical part of the ignition switch to at least inspect it. And when you access it, by wiggling the wires you may trigger an intermittent failure, or not. Then next step beyond that would be to pop it open to inspect the inner contacts. Actually replacing the ignition switch is a little more involved - described in a TSB (and the TSB is many pages long, but the Odyssey portion is only a page or so, so don't think it's more complicated than it is just due to a long TSB). And yes, when you change the electrical portion, you don't mess with the mechanical portion at all.

The driveless security screws are really not a problem if you have a Dremel tool. When I had things apart working on my immo system, I just cut slots in the screw heads with a Dremel cut-off attachment and could then easily unscrew them with a big slotted screwdriver. The "heads" of the screws are flat because they break away when being installed, but they must break away at a pretty low torque ==> very easy to remove.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
So from your link on the PN I did a search and stumbled on this post.

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/9-pro...rums/9-problems-concerns/153710-2000-ody-won-t-start-after-few-short-trips.html

This is the closest I have come to my problem. This is the first post I have found that talks about the LACK of a green key light. Mine is doing the exact same thing except it has not yet stalled on me. it just didn't want to start a few times. I am thinking more and more since I can not get it to every fail to start or induce a stall by wiggling the key I don't think it is the switch. I am now leaning very strongly to the relay. I think I will focus checking out that part.
 
Discussion starter · #10 · (Edited)
Ok so here is an update. I do believe it was the main relay. I ordered online both the relay and the electric portion of the ignition switch (way cheaper online than the list price +15% that my local dealer charges.)

I drove the van for 2 weeks and had the no-start issue happen a few times, always seemed to be right after a short trip rather than a longer one. I then replaced the relay assembly and have not had any issues since.

I finally got to removing the guts from the original relay assembly and inspecting the solder joints. At first glance I could not see anything but then I looked closer. I found one relay pin that had a cracked solder joint. If you look at the circuit board with the relays down and the connectors aimed at you. Line up with the #3 connector there are two relay pins that line up with that #3 connector. They happen to be the right two pins of the left hand relay when holding it as described. I could just make out a hairline crack in the pin that is closest to the #3 connector. I wasn't sure if it really was cracked and then I gently pushed up from below on the relay and then the crack visibly opened up. Fully cracked all the way around the solder joint.

I guess time will tell but I don't see how a cracked joint like this couldn't be causing issues.

For clarification for anyone chasing this issue the main relay assembly is 39400-S84-003 and is located under the dash just right of the steering column. Lay on your back by the drivers feet and look up.
 
#11 ·
smokin_blue said:
I have searched and sifted through many threads. Most all have to do with the key light flashing or staying lit. My issue is a 2001 LX with 181,000 miles (I am original owner). Just recently I started getting intermittent no start issues. The engine cranks but doesn't fire. This can happen repeatedly or just once. Then it may start just fine. I have tried all 3 original keys with no key rings. Still happens. The key sign (sorry bad unintended pun) seems to be if I get any key light at all it is good, the light comes on then goes out and it will start. if I put the key in and don't get a key light it will spin but not start. In that process I never get a key light of any sort.

My thought from reading other threads is it may be the electrical part of the ignition switch is failing to send power to the immobilizer unit.

Can I get some thoughts from the infinite wisdom of this forum?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Im having the exact same problem with my 2001 Odyssey. It has 296 k on the odometer. DID YOU EVER FIGURE IT OUT ? I'm desperately seeking a cure . Thanks
 
#12 ·
Did you bother to read through the thread? The answer is right above your post:
smokin_blue said:
Ok so here is an update. I do believe it was the main relay. I ordered online both the relay and the electric portion of the ignition switch (way cheaper online than the list price +15% that my local dealer charges.)
Click to expand...
 
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