The facts : child seat anchors in 2005 Ody

CPSDarren · Dec 8, 2004

Regulations that went into effect a few years ago require that all seating positions that have a top tether anchor be tested simultaneously. Previously, they could be tested separately. This adds costs for manufacturers, especially for bench seating.

This is supposedly why Chrysler decontented their minivans and removed third row top tether anchors only a year after the new models appeared in 2001.

Previously, the Odyssey had three anchors in the third row, but all were attached to the tailgate. It's only speculation, but perhaps the new design would have been much more costly since they didn't want to block cargo space by going to the rear tailgate for anchors again.

Maybe they should learn from Toyota...

Blueprint · Dec 8, 2004

caviller said:
(...) It's only speculation, but perhaps the new design would have been much more costly since they didn't want to block cargo space by going to the rear tailgate for anchors again. (...)

The third row anchor for the 2005 Ody is still located below the tailgate. With regard to the regulations aspects, it only makes the decision to remove the extra anchor threads even more puzzling.

The only other van to use a bumper-level anchor is the current MPV.

The Sienna is the only minivan that now offers more than one top tether anchor in the 3rd row : both are seat-frame mounted on the 60% part of the rear bench.

CPSDarren · Dec 8, 2004

Very interesting. I figured they would have put the anchors on the seat frame for 2005 to avoid blocking the cargo area with tether straps...

I'm waiting for the Sienna hybrid, anyway;-)

provench · Dec 9, 2004

Well - official answer back from Honda Customer Service. No plans to have anything other than a single LATCH setup in the 3rd row and she didn't give any reasons behind it. She duly noted my complaint and will pass it on to engineering for future Odyssey designs. She said because it is a safety component that a retro kit is pretty much not gonna happen most likely.

Somehow I don't feel satisfied

Guest · Dec 10, 2004

Weak! :rant:

Unless Honda realizes the problem with limiting the flexibility of seating with *more than one* child like this, we may have to shop elsewhere when the boys get older.

Just when our friends were starting to like (LOVE) the fact that we could carpool, they go off and get pregnant again. Back to their Blazer with them when their 2nd arrives...

--> Andy

provench · Dec 10, 2004

So here's the question ... would you guys put your 2 year old (twins in my case) in a car seat in the third row with a properly installed car seat just using the seat belt? To me since the LATCH stuff is availble it seems like a bad idea, but it sure would make the van much more useful when we have newborn + twin 2 year olds to have twins in back and newboard in middle and 2nd middle seat open for riders (and easy flip up passthru).

Thoughts?

CPSDarren · Dec 10, 2004

If the fit is secure with a seatbelt, it is just as safe as using LATCH. You should still use the top tether anchors, whether you install with a seat belt or the lower anchors.

Blueprint · Dec 10, 2004

caviller said:
If the fit is secure with a seatbelt, it is just as safe as using LATCH. You should still use the top tether anchors, whether you install with a seat belt or the lower anchors.

No, it won't work, since there's only one top tether anchor in the 3rd row and from a previous post here we know that the anchors are safe for only one child seat.

Therefore, it's newborn in 2nd row, and splitting the twins in 2nd and 3rd row, or have mom (or dad) sit in the 3rd row with the newborn.

You just can't safely seat two toddlers in the 3rd row of a 3rd gen Ody. If that is a must, then trade on a leftover '04 or get a Sienna. This is a major, major blunder from Honda.

CPSDarren · Dec 10, 2004

As you said, if you have a 2004 or earlier Odyssey, there are three tether anchors in the third row.

Also, many toddlers can be rearfacing, often up to 4 years old depending on the child seat and vehicle. Rearfacing is safer, and does not require a tether.

Blueprint · Dec 10, 2004

caviller said:
As you said, if you have a 2004 or earlier Odyssey, there are three tether anchors in the third row.

Also, many toddlers can be rearfacing, often up to 4 years old depending on the child seat and vehicle. Rearfacing is safer, and does not require a tether.

provench has a new '05, hence one tether only in the third row.

I thought rearfacing for older children caused safety issues related to leg placement

Quite messy also with slushy boots for us snowbelt residents. Kids may also get bored from looking at a seatback.

Guest · Dec 10, 2004

Blueprint said:
You just can't safely seat two toddlers in the 2nd row of a 3rd gen Ody. If that is a must, then trade on a leftover '04 or get a Sienna. This is a major, major blunder from Honda.

Er, I hope you meant you can't safely seat two toddlers in the 3rd row... otherwise I gotta tell my boys they have to move.

As for rear-facing vs. forward facing... I don't think I've ever heard of anyone staying rear facing until they were 4. It varies with the weight limits on the convertible seats... our Seat Clinic gal told us to expect the switch to happen around 1 1/2 - 2 years or so with most seats. I think the Britax seats have a weight limit somewhere in the low 30's before you can't rear-face anymore. If anything, most people I've heard are too eager to switch the seats around, changing at exactly 1 year (or) 20 lbs, instead of waiting for 1 yr (and) 20 lbs.

In either case. Still weak, Honda. Weak.

--> Andy

shellebelle · Dec 10, 2004

Blueprint said:
I thought rearfacing for older children caused safety issues related to leg placement

We go by the mantra that "bent legs don't break". AFAIK, there have been no injuries to the legs of rear facing children when the seat was properly used. There have been, however, thousands of head and neck injuries to forward facing children when they werre flung forward into their harness in a crash. And from what I can tell watching those medical shows on TLC all the time is that orthopedic injuries are much easier to treat than injuries to the brain and spinal cord.

As of the last time I heard, in Sweeden that they keep their children rear facing up until age five or so. They've also only had about 9 children die in car crashes in the last ten years, and these crashes were so severe that no one else survived.

But yes, the muddy boot issue. I don't really have an answer for that one because it never comes up here in southern California.

shellebelle · Dec 10, 2004

Blueprint said:
You just can't safely seat two toddlers in the 2nd row of a 3rd gen Ody.

Do you mean the third row? The second row has a tether anchor on each seat (2nd and 3rd gen).

Also keep in mind that you don't need tether anchors for rear facing seats (some convertible seats tether rear facing, but you use a special strap to do that). The infant seat can go anywhere.

CPSDarren · Dec 10, 2004

Leg placement may be a comfort issue, but it is not a safety issue. Also:

http://www.car-safety.org/rearface.html

Minivans like the Odyssey are great in this regard because you can semi-recline the second and third row seats for a little more legroom. You can see photos of my daughter at 2.5 and 3.5 years old in an Odyssey at the bottom of the page below, along with a seat protector that helps with the dirty shoes. For me, cleanup and boredom were not considerations.

http://www.car-safety.org/odyssey.html

JoolsTAG · Dec 11, 2004

As for rear-facing vs. forward facing... I don't think I've ever heard of anyone staying rear facing until they were 4. It varies with the weight limits on the convertible seats... our Seat Clinic gal told us to expect the switch to happen around 1 1/2 - 2 years or so with most seats. >>

I have a very skinny girl who fit comfortably rearfacing till age 4. She didn't get bored (why is one seatback more boring than the the other?) and had a big brother to look at . We were sad when she turned 33.999 pounds and HAD to forward-face, as she was old enough to understand she was giving up some of her own safety AND comfort (yes, rearfacing IS more comfortable...she had a huge range of leg positions...like we do with a coffee table to put our feet on, really.)
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

As a tech, I tell people as long as the seat allows, go for rearfacing, but "give in" and tell them 18 months to 2, because it's such a freaky idea for most people, that you have to ease them into the idea of rearfacing beyond a year.

Julie
CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats in a 2003 Ody

Blueprint · Dec 13, 2004

shellebelle said:
Do you mean the third row? The second row has a tether anchor on each seat (2nd and 3rd gen).

Also keep in mind that you don't need tether anchors for rear facing seats (some convertible seats tether rear facing, but you use a special strap to do that). The infant seat can go anywhere.

:duh:

Typo !

I meant 3rd row, of course...

Blueprint · Dec 13, 2004

Wyeast said:
Er, I hope you meant you can't safely seat two toddlers in the 3rd row... otherwise I gotta tell my boys they have to move. --> Andy

I edited the post. Thanks for spotting the typo !

Our Odyssey · Dec 16, 2004

This is a terrible mistake by Honda

Before we settled on our Ody, we looked at all the major players in the market. We finally went with the Odyssey because of our good experience with the brand (3 Accords in the family) and because of the flexibility we had with being able to fit up to 5 kids in car seats and use the top tether anchors. (By the way, I'm glad to see that many of you know so much about car seats and some of you have been to clinics and someone is also a certified child safety seat tech like myself!)

I was able to squeeze 3 seats in the rear most bench by buying two seats that were about an inch narrower overall than the others I already had. It *just* fits. The only other van where I was able to do the same was in the Chryslers, but the tranny problems there scared me (I guess I ended up paying the same price anyways with the Odyssey

)

I really liked the new Ody but after hearing about this issue, I guess if we're in the market for another van someday, I'll definitely look elsewhere.

prop · Dec 16, 2004

Is it possible to attach three tethers to the one anchor in the well (the seat in the middle of the 3rd row would go straight back while the other two would be on an angle)? Is this against the "rules" of car seat placement/attachment?

Blueprint · Dec 16, 2004

prop said:
Is it possible to attach three tethers to the one anchor in the well (the seat in the middle of the 3rd row would go straight back while the other two would be on an angle)? Is this against the "rules" of car seat placement/attachment?

The anchors are designed for the weight of one child seat only (usually). Besides, the anchors and hooks are designed in a way that you can only install them one on one.

The facts : child seat anchors in 2005 Ody

CPSDarren

Blueprint

CPSDarren

provench

Guest

provench

CPSDarren

Blueprint

CPSDarren

Blueprint

Guest

shellebelle

shellebelle

CPSDarren

JoolsTAG

Blueprint

Blueprint

Our Odyssey

prop

Blueprint

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