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New KYB struts soft?

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front strut kyb new soft
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sdodd

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi All,
I finally decided to replace the shocks/struts on my 2012 touring elite after evidence of a leaky rear shock. Based on other comments, at 175k miles it was way past time.
As availability is marginal on many parts I got the KYB Excel-G shocks/struts from RockAuto. (and associated bushings/rubber/etc)
I replaced the rear shocks yesterday. As expected, the leaky shock was bad and the other was softer than a 'new' shock. Both replaced without issue.

I opened the new front struts today to confirm all of my parts before rebuilding the fronts next weekend. When I did a quick compression check on the new struts, they both seemed very soft. I could compress them easily with 10-20lb load. They did extend without issue, they just don't seem to be very 'strong'. I haven't replace many shocks in my life - maybe 20-30, but these were the softest new struts I have ever felt. They took less effort to compress than my old rear blown shocks. Is this normal for the odyssey front strut?

Both packages looked unopened, both struts looked new with no damage or leaks. And, both packages had the top nut poking through the box because there was no other protection for the point load.
The top threaded shaft does look a little bent in the picture, but I think it is an optical delusion. A straight edge shows it to be fine.

Here is a video showing the compression:
KYB Strut Compression

Any thoughts? I just don't want to rebuild the front to discover I've put in bad struts.

thanks,
simon
Image
 
#4 ·
Compressing by hand is very 'low speed' and won't tell you much about the performance on road. KYB is a quality brand (still, luckily!) - I'd have no issue installing them.

-Charlie
 
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Discussion starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thanks for the good thoughts!

I was driving by autozone so I took one of the struts in to see their reaction. To quote him, 'I have tailgate lift struts stronger than that.'

I do concur that hand movement of shocks/struts isn't what they are designed for. At the same time, I've never felt struts this floppy. I can to a quick/jerk compression and get 1/2" of movement before there is any additional resistance. In the past I have played with different valving on struts/shocks to match different spring rates and wasn't sure whether the odyssey was just in a weird space of spring and valving. But, most shocks/struts take effort (sometimes a lot of effort) to compress them to get them in place, but this is way easy. I can put a static 15lb of weight on this strut and it won't extend itself. That seems very wrong.

Don't know if this will work, but here is a video link on my google drive. Sorry it is at an angle - hard to video and compress at the same time. I'm adding this to the initial post too.
KYB strut Compression
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
I agree that having both be 'bad' at the same time seems unlikely, which is why I am asking. If one were harder than the other I would have an answer.

Unfortunately, nobody in a 50 mile radius of me (including dealer) has anything in stock for the odyssey front struts.

I'm going to drop by a mechanic friend (close) and possibly the dealer (much further away) to see if a honda mechanic will give me an answer. Will also send an email to KYB to see what they say.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Mine are up to be changed next item (110K miles) and I am pretty sold on Excel-G so will be watching for your confirmation.

Oh...on a side note...If you don't mind telling, where was the purchase from?

There's a pretty big consensus that everything commonly used has counterfeiters.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
I received a fairly quick and mostly useless email response from KYB:
"Hello,
We are very sorry to hear about this inconvenience you are facing. We are showing that these units are the correct units for your application if it’s a to Chassis/VIN# CB088499. Now, pushing on a strut or shock will not show you if its defective or not. Reason being, an operating vehicle exceeds what you can accomplish by hand. Furthermore, fluid valves are designed to operate differently depending on the degree of movement."
They then went on to describe their warranty process and the fact that if there is a warranty claim I have to take it up with the vendor (RockAuto), not the company.

Haven't been able to get to the dealer or mechanic yet. I'm still stuck on the fact that 1) both struts are the same and 2) they can hardly damp my jerky movement.

If anybody has purchased odyssey struts or played with odyssey struts with no spring, I would be very interested in your feedback.
 
#10 ·
I can't speak for the Odyssey, but I've ordered a couple sets for prior cars and was always amazed at how "soft" they felt. But remember, these are dampers. Their job is to control the movement of the SPRING, not to bear load themselves. Further, they tend to work best in a certain range of motion (usually in the middle) and unlike your gas strut on a trunk lid, they don't stay under compression and function AS the spring. They allow free flowing of the damper fluid between the chambers, so you'll only get a very small pushback from most of them.

As risky as it sounds, I would reserve judgment until they're on the van.
 
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#11 ·
sdodd said:
I received a fairly quick and mostly useless email response from KYB:
"Hello,
We are very sorry to hear about this inconvenience you are facing. We are showing that these units are the correct units for your application if it’s a to Chassis/VIN# CB088499. Now, pushing on a strut or shock will not show you if its defective or not. Reason being, an operating vehicle exceeds what you can accomplish by hand. Furthermore, fluid valves are designed to operate differently depending on the degree of movement."
They then went on to describe their warranty process and the fact that if there is a warranty claim I have to take it up with the vendor (RockAuto), not the company.

Haven't been able to get to the dealer or mechanic yet. I'm still stuck on the fact that 1) both struts are the same and 2) they can hardly damp my jerky movement.

If anybody has purchased odyssey struts or played with odyssey struts with no spring, I would be very interested in your feedback.
Click to expand...
I am not sure if it's going to make your situation any better, but I have a set of KYB front struts that I just recently purchased from Amazon. Performing the same test as in your video mine is just as "weak" or weaker than yours. I just purchased mine a few weeks ago, so if it's a bad batch it could be both of ours.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
ericmac450 said:
I am not sure if it's going to make your situation any better, but I have a set of KYB front struts that I just recently purchased from Amazon. Performing the same test as in your video mine is just as "weak" or weaker than yours. I just purchased mine a few weeks ago, so if it's a bad batch it could be both of ours.
Click to expand...
That is really helpful! If yours are the same, I'm leaning toward "design" rather than fault. Do you concur that they feel really soft compared to anything you have ever used before?

ash78 said:
I can't speak for the Odyssey, but I've ordered a couple sets for prior cars and was always amazed at how "soft" they felt. But remember, these are dampers. Their job is to control the movement of the SPRING, not to bear load themselves.
Click to expand...
I do understand what you are saying. In most cars the springs carry the load and the struts/shocks/dampers control the springs. But even so, with 40+lbs of unsprung weight, there has to be some resistance to movement.
Most of my 30+ years of car ownership has been with various volvos. I almost always replaced the front strut inserts with Bilstein HDs. And, it was always a bear to compress them enough to get the compressed spring on the strut, all the bushings, and the top plate on with the nut. These struts for the odysseys are just absolutely different.

Maybe a different question - do gas shocks his when you compress them? I could never compress others fast enough to hear anything. (unless they were obviously defective) I imagine they could have sound - there are orifices to let gas pass at a certain rate(s).

Not trying to be dense here or beat this to death. It is just 4-5 hours of work that I don't want to repeat if I don't have to. I stopped working on 'project' cars a long time ago and just do my own maintenance because I hate paying somebody else for things I know I can do.
 
#13 ·
sdodd said:
I almost always replaced the front strut inserts with Bilstein HDs.
Click to expand...
There you go. Bilstein shocks use digressive valving - and are MUCH stiffer at slow speeds than linear or progressive shocks. The KYBs will 'float' a lot more than the Bilstein's you are used to, but that leads to a soft/comfortable ride instead of the 'sporty' ride of Bilstein shocks. The force at higher shaft speeds (that you cannot simulate by hand) is highly likely to be correct.

-Charlie
 
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#14 ·
This all sounds good and I'd go for it as it's prob. design. The last set I did (KYB's even) were on an old Sienna (99) and I noticed nothing 'soft' about the struts HOWEVER the springs were and I could nearly compress them enough by hand to put on the tophat. It rode fine. really fine. Nothing like new shocks when they\re needed.
 
#15 ·
Preload, Rebound and Compression Dampening; the three mantra's of shocks. Simply stated, by hand you're feeling the "return" speed post-compression, the SPRING are what give you the feel under load. So it should feel pretty soft and under more weight and pressure it will react differently as does the spring's return itself.

They'll be fine! I haven't done our '16 EXL yet, but I had too do our '07 Avalon with a lot more miles on it a while back and I went with KYBs. HOLY COW, what a difference! I should have replaced those buggers years before I did...

Good luck!
 
#16 ·
Recently bought new KYB front struts for my 06 Civic EX and they are just like yours - soft. It's normal though and i'm sure you will feel the difference over the old ones! My Ody with 170k will receive new KYB's soon on all 4.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
phattyduck said:
There you go. Bilstein shocks use digressive valving - and are MUCH stiffer at slow speeds than linear or progressive shocks. The KYBs will 'float' a lot more than the Bilstein's you are used to, but that leads to a soft/comfortable ride instead of the 'sporty' ride of Bilstein shocks.
Click to expand...
That makes sense - my prior experience is skewed with the Bilstein. Though, the Volvo's never felt sporty... just less floaty.

Thank you everybody for your input! I'll put on the KYBs soon - perhaps this weekend if my other projects get done.
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
white2015 said:
Please report back......
I'll be replacing the rears on our ody soon.
Click to expand...
I had no issues with the rears. The KYB went in easily and were not unusually soft like I felt the front struts were. They are great on the road and well worth the $90 for the pair. Whole thing took me 1.5 hours and that was from the time I moved the car into the garage until my test ride. I didn't move fast, there was lots of back and forth to the tool box to get the right size sockets, and I did a full rear end/brakes inspection too.
 
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