I have an '06 with 3k+ miles. Usually I would have had the oil changed but the oil life indicator is only at 50%. Do I wait for the indicator to tell me when to change the oil or do I take matters into my own hands?
Frequency of oil changes
Gertrude Hardy
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I have an '06 with 3k+ miles. Usually I would have had the oil changed but the oil life indicator is only at 50%. Do I wait for the indicator to tell me when to change the oil or do I take matters into my own hands?
You are going to get as many opinions on this one as there are members on this board. Unless you drive the van really hard, changing every 3k miles is usually overkill, but I admit that I change oil in my vehicles about every 3k miles. However, in the same breath I'll also say that changing your oil is the best thing you can do for your engine and you can't do it too much. So basically what it boils down to is do whatever you feel comfortable with. Depending on how you drive, I'd pick an interval between 3k and 6k and go with it.
I'm in the follow the MID group. Just because we've "always done it that way" doesn't mean it still the right thing to do. Modern cars and modern lubricants make this possible. There is no reason to waste resources just to "feel better". And yes I know the oil gets recycled, but even that takes energy. Honda is said to put in a break-in oil (unproven) and they request that it be left in until the MID says to replace it. When it does need replacing, use the recommended weight of oil. Your mileage may depend on it. Try not to think of waiting as neglect. You are just following directions 
Synthetic frequency?
I don't have an indicator on my 2002 Odyssey, but the indicator on my 2006 Accord was saying "60% of oil life remaining" when I hit 3,800 miles. I'm not about to go over 7,000 miles on the oil, so I went ahead and changed it.
But, I'm wondering, how often do folks change synthetic oil? It seems like a waste to change a synthetic oil after 3,000-4,000 miles since it's probably still protecting better than a new dino oil at that point. Any suggestions?
I don't have an indicator on my 2002 Odyssey, but the indicator on my 2006 Accord was saying "60% of oil life remaining" when I hit 3,800 miles. I'm not about to go over 7,000 miles on the oil, so I went ahead and changed it.
But, I'm wondering, how often do folks change synthetic oil? It seems like a waste to change a synthetic oil after 3,000-4,000 miles since it's probably still protecting better than a new dino oil at that point. Any suggestions?
oil change.
Honda is pretty specific. Follow the oil life monitor's recommendation. Details are in the ower's manual.
As far as your first oil change goes, Honda says there is a special "break in" oil used and you should not change the oil until the oil life monitor says to. This info is straight from the Owner's Link website under oil questions.
My 06 went almost 7000 miles last interval before the OLM said to change the oil. I change mine when it gets to the 10% mark. I suppose you could change it at 20% if it gives you peace of mind.
Like you, I grew up with the 3000 oil change inteval. However, the oils of today are simply amazing compared to those of 20-30 years ago - to say nothing of the engines we feed that same oil to.
One thing I do different than the monitor specifies is that I change out the filter with every single oil change rather than every other oil change. Just hurts my brain to run clean oil through a used filter.
Honda is pretty specific. Follow the oil life monitor's recommendation. Details are in the ower's manual.
As far as your first oil change goes, Honda says there is a special "break in" oil used and you should not change the oil until the oil life monitor says to. This info is straight from the Owner's Link website under oil questions.
My 06 went almost 7000 miles last interval before the OLM said to change the oil. I change mine when it gets to the 10% mark. I suppose you could change it at 20% if it gives you peace of mind.
Like you, I grew up with the 3000 oil change inteval. However, the oils of today are simply amazing compared to those of 20-30 years ago - to say nothing of the engines we feed that same oil to.
One thing I do different than the monitor specifies is that I change out the filter with every single oil change rather than every other oil change. Just hurts my brain to run clean oil through a used filter.
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Re: Synthetic frequency?
My first oil change was at roughly 4800 miles, (can't remember the exact mileage) based on the MID 10% left on oil life, with Mobil1, 5w-20. I'll follow the MID, at least during the warranty period. Come time past the warranty period, I may go a bit further. If you'd prefer, doing an oil analysis to see the condition of your oil might not be a bad idea..bjmeyer said:
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Pat Goss says change it often....Very important for engine life.
Re: Synthetic frequency?
I asked this question in a dealer service forum for new Honda owners. The answer was that the monitor would recognize the difference in the oil and extend the period. So, we will be putting in synthetic after the break-in oil is removed. The MID is supposed to recognize the difference.bjmeyer said:
When my BIL bought his Suburban, I was curious about the “oil life system” and found this blurb from GM (just searched it up again):
www.gm.com/company/gmability/environment/news_issues/news/simplified_maintenance_qa_040104.html
My initial guess would be that Honda’s approach must be about the same.
But J_N, you’ve got me thinking about this again since the forum you visited stated that Honda’s system will recognize the difference between dino and synthetic oil. I find it hard to imagine what technology Honda has devised to do this – I’d sure like to know what the scoop is. Have you seen any detailed info? Also, does that forum seem pretty reliable?
P.S. I have a 2001 so it’s not really an issue for my oil changes – just curious. Thanks.
www.gm.com/company/gmability/environment/news_issues/news/simplified_maintenance_qa_040104.html
My initial guess would be that Honda’s approach must be about the same.
But J_N, you’ve got me thinking about this again since the forum you visited stated that Honda’s system will recognize the difference between dino and synthetic oil. I find it hard to imagine what technology Honda has devised to do this – I’d sure like to know what the scoop is. Have you seen any detailed info? Also, does that forum seem pretty reliable?
P.S. I have a 2001 so it’s not really an issue for my oil changes – just curious. Thanks.
Re: Re: Synthetic frequency?
Its assumes you are using an oil of the correct type and weigth.
Based on a formula that includes the number or starts, distance travelled, engine temperature, time etc etc it comes up with an estimate of the life left in the oil..
Maximum would be just start the car after the oil change and keep driving on the highway with only stops for gas.
Minimum would be driving less that say 5 miles each way to work in Alaska.
The MID does not know the difference bewteen dino oil, sythetic oil or even corn oil (don't actually try this)..J_N said:
Its assumes you are using an oil of the correct type and weigth.
Based on a formula that includes the number or starts, distance travelled, engine temperature, time etc etc it comes up with an estimate of the life left in the oil..
Maximum would be just start the car after the oil change and keep driving on the highway with only stops for gas.
Minimum would be driving less that say 5 miles each way to work in Alaska.
Re: Re: Re: Synthetic frequency?
There is another indoctrination forum coming up this week. I don't believe we will be able to attend, but if we can, I'll raise your question. Normally, I would agree with you and move on, but since they had a number of resources to use in answering my question, I think I owe them another shot.
It's going to take us a while to get to the second oil change, but I will try to keep up with the MID and report back unless we can settle the question otherwise. Now I had a 1997 540 Sport BMW that followed the procedure you outlined. It would go anywhere from 12-15,000 on an oil change. That car now has 107,000 miles on it and uses no oil. My son switched to synthetic when he took possession from me.
Here is the first 18000 mile analysis test using Mobil synthetic and a Camaro. It is very interesting, because the analysis results indicate that you can change oil too often. Protection improved as the oil was used, according to the analysis.
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html
The study is continuing using Amsoil, Red Line, with Royal Purple and Castrol synthetics in the wings. You can follow that study at: http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html
Switching from plain oil to synthetics used to eat at the seals and cause oil leaks. But, I successfully switched my wife's Continental to Mobile 1 with no oil leaks. That aspect seems to have been improved.
PS: I e-mailed these guys at spacebears and invited them to join the discussion in this forum -- moderators permitting.
Well, bbylon5, the service staff that was at that indoctrination forum (David-McDavid, Frisco) had a different opinion. According to the guy they referred the question to, who seemed to be the most technically knowledged, Ody MID would sense the difference in the condition of the oil.bbylon5 said:
There is another indoctrination forum coming up this week. I don't believe we will be able to attend, but if we can, I'll raise your question. Normally, I would agree with you and move on, but since they had a number of resources to use in answering my question, I think I owe them another shot.
It's going to take us a while to get to the second oil change, but I will try to keep up with the MID and report back unless we can settle the question otherwise. Now I had a 1997 540 Sport BMW that followed the procedure you outlined. It would go anywhere from 12-15,000 on an oil change. That car now has 107,000 miles on it and uses no oil. My son switched to synthetic when he took possession from me.
Here is the first 18000 mile analysis test using Mobil synthetic and a Camaro. It is very interesting, because the analysis results indicate that you can change oil too often. Protection improved as the oil was used, according to the analysis.
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html
The study is continuing using Amsoil, Red Line, with Royal Purple and Castrol synthetics in the wings. You can follow that study at: http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html
Switching from plain oil to synthetics used to eat at the seals and cause oil leaks. But, I successfully switched my wife's Continental to Mobile 1 with no oil leaks. That aspect seems to have been improved.
PS: I e-mailed these guys at spacebears and invited them to join the discussion in this forum -- moderators permitting.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Synthetic frequency?
I still thinks it does its calculations based purely on driving conditions/habits but I could very well be wrong. I figured they were using something similar to my old BMW (1988 735i)...
Technology does indeed march ahead so maybe they do have someway of including the condition of the oil in the calculations.
The possibility of an optical solution doesn't surprise me. Even my dishwasher has a soil sensor that estimates how dirty the dishes are based on how cloudy the water is...
As a quick test, ask the guy who knows about the MID how often the ATF filter should be changed.. If he is like all the other knowledgeable guys from Honda he will tell you there isn't one
If this is indeed the case I would be very interested in knowing how.J_N said:
I still thinks it does its calculations based purely on driving conditions/habits but I could very well be wrong. I figured they were using something similar to my old BMW (1988 735i)...
Technology does indeed march ahead so maybe they do have someway of including the condition of the oil in the calculations.
The possibility of an optical solution doesn't surprise me. Even my dishwasher has a soil sensor that estimates how dirty the dishes are based on how cloudy the water is...
As a quick test, ask the guy who knows about the MID how often the ATF filter should be changed.. If he is like all the other knowledgeable guys from Honda he will tell you there isn't one
J_N,
Please do update us. As bbylon5 says, the “first generation” oil maintenance minders were strictly algorithmic (based on driving conditions). But the question remains (and I don’t know) as to whether there is a “second generation” which uses some type of direct info about the oil condition. I’m glad you are going to research this.
I just find it hard to imagine what that would be. I doubt it’s optical – it just seems like it would be too difficult to correlate the condition of oil to something about its optical properties.
The one thing I wonder a bit about is electrical properties. Maybe a bit far fetched, but perhaps the electrical properties change (enough, and in a way which directly correlates to oil condition) such that a sensor can give some type of useful input to an oil maintenance/change calculation. Don’t know…
Anyway, I remain curious. Honda is, after all, using some interesting technology. I was surprised by the active noise control on their Variable Cylinder Management engine set ups (I looked this up recently after a friend of mine bought a Pilot with VCM - it may be well known to others here):
www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/041014.htm
Please do update us. As bbylon5 says, the “first generation” oil maintenance minders were strictly algorithmic (based on driving conditions). But the question remains (and I don’t know) as to whether there is a “second generation” which uses some type of direct info about the oil condition. I’m glad you are going to research this.
I just find it hard to imagine what that would be. I doubt it’s optical – it just seems like it would be too difficult to correlate the condition of oil to something about its optical properties.
The one thing I wonder a bit about is electrical properties. Maybe a bit far fetched, but perhaps the electrical properties change (enough, and in a way which directly correlates to oil condition) such that a sensor can give some type of useful input to an oil maintenance/change calculation. Don’t know…
Anyway, I remain curious. Honda is, after all, using some interesting technology. I was surprised by the active noise control on their Variable Cylinder Management engine set ups (I looked this up recently after a friend of mine bought a Pilot with VCM - it may be well known to others here):
www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/041014.htm
J_N and bbylon5,
Found something that might be of interest (in particular, the discussion/description found at the lower left of page 17 which starts with “Oil condition monitoring sensors add hardware…”).
www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Pdf/032003_06.pdf
Doesn't answer the question about what Honda is using, but certainly indicates that some snazzy sensors are being employed these days.
J_N - do you think (via that forum) you could get some type of "press release" on the Honda oil monitoring system? I searched and searched, and found nothing.
Found something that might be of interest (in particular, the discussion/description found at the lower left of page 17 which starts with “Oil condition monitoring sensors add hardware…”).
www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Pdf/032003_06.pdf
Doesn't answer the question about what Honda is using, but certainly indicates that some snazzy sensors are being employed these days.
J_N - do you think (via that forum) you could get some type of "press release" on the Honda oil monitoring system? I searched and searched, and found nothing.
Good find, mem. Not sure there will be anything as explanatory as a press release might be. Our plate is pretty full this week and we may not make the forum. Will try and will take Mike Dale's article with me and try to introduce it to the staff before the forum starts.
We got there early and I tackled the MC, Jerry. Jerry browsed the article quickly, gave me his card and wrote down my e-mail address. He said that they would rather not talk about that tonight (maybe he was lost), but he would look into it and get back.
About that time, Paulo Chang, the bright guy came by and I pursued. According to Paulo the system is pretty simple. He said the sensor is actually measuring the pressure to pump oil. According to Paulo, the more the oil is used, the more it thickens and the more pressure it takes to pump it. Sounds simple. Maybe you fellows might want to bounce this off your service advisors and see how many blank stares you can generate.
I'm not sure that I will ever hear any more from these guys, but will pass it on if I do.
About that time, Paulo Chang, the bright guy came by and I pursued. According to Paulo the system is pretty simple. He said the sensor is actually measuring the pressure to pump oil. According to Paulo, the more the oil is used, the more it thickens and the more pressure it takes to pump it. Sounds simple. Maybe you fellows might want to bounce this off your service advisors and see how many blank stares you can generate.
I'm not sure that I will ever hear any more from these guys, but will pass it on if I do.
oil life monitor
No commercial oil life monitor system (including Honda's) actually "analyzes" your oil. The systems have no clue what type oil you use. All of these systems work by using existing engine management sensors and plugging the data into a computer program. This data can come from: coolant temp sensor, intake air temp sensor, engine rpms, miles driven, etc.
A system that actually analyzed the oil would require one hell of an on board laboratory that would require an update capability as new oil formulations appeared on the market.
No commercial oil life monitor system (including Honda's) actually "analyzes" your oil. The systems have no clue what type oil you use. All of these systems work by using existing engine management sensors and plugging the data into a computer program. This data can come from: coolant temp sensor, intake air temp sensor, engine rpms, miles driven, etc.
A system that actually analyzed the oil would require one hell of an on board laboratory that would require an update capability as new oil formulations appeared on the market.
Re: oil life monitor
www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Pdf/032003_06.pdf
Not to say that Honda is indeed using this system but does indicate there are ways to analyze the oil that do not require an on board lab...
Thats exactly the way I thought as well untill I read the following posted by MEM a coupl of notes backPezman1 said:
www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Pdf/032003_06.pdf
Not to say that Honda is indeed using this system but does indicate there are ways to analyze the oil that do not require an on board lab...
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