Has anyone else heard about this recall? I searched but couldn't find anything.
See link below:
Yahoo news link
USAToday link
edit for addl link
See link below:
Yahoo news link
USAToday link
edit for addl link
1970CPA
What a bunch of BS...read the snippet from the press release below:
American Honda is planning to notify NHTSA today of our intent to conduct a safety recall on certain 2005 - 2007 model year Acura RL and 2005 -early-2007 model year Honda Odyssey vehicles to repair the brake master cylinder. Honda recently became aware of the potential for one seal in the brake master cylinder to fail due to use of brake fluid other than Honda Genuine brake fluid, followed by a mechanical brake bleed procedure.
The whole bit about "...other than Honda Genuine brake fluid..." totally kills me. So Honda is using a rubber seal in the master cylinder that is incompatible with all other known brake fluids? I hope the repair involves a new master cylinder with improved seals that won't fail when used with standard brake fluid! LOL
American Honda is planning to notify NHTSA today of our intent to conduct a safety recall on certain 2005 - 2007 model year Acura RL and 2005 -early-2007 model year Honda Odyssey vehicles to repair the brake master cylinder. Honda recently became aware of the potential for one seal in the brake master cylinder to fail due to use of brake fluid other than Honda Genuine brake fluid, followed by a mechanical brake bleed procedure.
The whole bit about "...other than Honda Genuine brake fluid..." totally kills me. So Honda is using a rubber seal in the master cylinder that is incompatible with all other known brake fluids? I hope the repair involves a new master cylinder with improved seals that won't fail when used with standard brake fluid! LOL
Good find.
Answer: Only Honda Dealer or Online dealer.
Question: Do online dealers ship fluid?
Answer: Almost all do not.
Question: Where can you find Honda Genuine Anything on a Sunday or after 5PM?
Answer: Nowhere.
Suddenly unexpectedly find your brakes worn out on Saturday night? Problem. Cannot flush the brakes as part of the brake job. No Genuine Honda Anything available.
Maybe next thing Honda will require is Genuine Honda Air or the warranty will be no good.
Question: Where can you buy Honda Genuine Anything?
Answer: Only Honda Dealer or Online dealer.
Question: Do online dealers ship fluid?
Answer: Almost all do not.
Question: Where can you find Honda Genuine Anything on a Sunday or after 5PM?
Answer: Nowhere.
Suddenly unexpectedly find your brakes worn out on Saturday night? Problem. Cannot flush the brakes as part of the brake job. No Genuine Honda Anything available.
Maybe next thing Honda will require is Genuine Honda Air or the warranty will be no good.
Any facts to back this up? Or is this just an excuse? Honda's name is on the vehicle. Honda is responsible. Honda is supposed to supervise suppliers. Honda gets credit when a supplier's part is unusually good. Honda gets the blame when things fail. Its a Honda vehicle.
Toyota allegedly has revised the master cylinder design. Waiting for Honda's comment.
Toyota was quoted as saying:
"In Japan, the specification says you can't have any leaks," said Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons. "In the U.S., we didn't want there to be any confusion." He said Toyota has since revised the master-cylinder design so that it holds up to different types of brake fluid. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-10-22-toyota22_ST_N.htm
Toyota was quoted as saying:
"In Japan, the specification says you can't have any leaks," said Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons. "In the U.S., we didn't want there to be any confusion." He said Toyota has since revised the master-cylinder design so that it holds up to different types of brake fluid. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-10-22-toyota22_ST_N.htm
eneka1 said:
The word "maybe" followed by a question mark implies the OP is throwing this out as a possible theory with no intimate knowledge as to the accuracy of said theory.baseball said:
Hold the phone here people....did you miss Toyota's recall about the SAME thing? This isnt a Honda or OEM thing. Its a supplier and seal manufucture issue.
It related to some brake fluid not having the same level of polymers, which curled up seals in the master cylinder during a 2-3 year period.
No reports of failure have been reported.
It related to some brake fluid not having the same level of polymers, which curled up seals in the master cylinder during a 2-3 year period.
No reports of failure have been reported.
When we purchased our 05 Odyssey (used in 07) I thought the brake pedal felt a bit mushy. After driving it for a few months I went to the dealer and mentioned it to them. They recommended a brake fluid flush and replace - which I did. It didn't really help, but I figured it wouldn't hurt. I did another flush in the winter of 09 and still the same mushy feeling.
I find it interesting that there is a "leak" in the master cylinder because I've always found the fluid level to be the same. I wonder if they are saying "possible leak" as a simple explanation of a more complicated issue with the master cylinder? Oh well, I'll just sit and wait to see when they bring out the recall in Canada.
I find it interesting that there is a "leak" in the master cylinder because I've always found the fluid level to be the same. I wonder if they are saying "possible leak" as a simple explanation of a more complicated issue with the master cylinder? Oh well, I'll just sit and wait to see when they bring out the recall in Canada.
Re: Good find.
I run only Genuine Honda Air in my Ody. Sure the roof tanks are unwieldy and likely to explode in an impact, but it's all about peace of mind that I get from using Genuine parts.
HondaUpNorth said:
There's a plunger in the Master Cyllinder that moves the fluid out of the cyllinder and into the lines. If that plunger doesn't seal well, fluid will slip past when the brake pedal is pressed. So the leak is internal...not external.
Maybe some people out there are using rot-gut brake fluid or something? I'm finding it hard to believe that the quality brake fluids out there don't have these lubricants in them. Just like Honda and Toyota don't make their own master cyllinders, they sure don't make their own brake fluid...it's made to spec by a supllier and that same supplier no doubt makes fluid that you can buy on the shelf.
I'm more inclined to believe that the supplier messed up on the specs for the actual seals and ended up with a rubber compound that shrunk or got hard with prolonged exposure to brake fluid. I know that standard rubber hose (like vacuum line) will get hard over time if you leave brake fluid residue in there.
They are rubbing in the point that had the Honda fluid been used, this problem doesnt occur. There ARE differences among brake fluid brands, its just nothing of which we typically know about or realize. Just like motor oils...there are subtle differences!cnn said:
Not even Honda and Toyota realized it until late, and they are proactively fixing the issue before a real problem does occur.
Again...this isnt just a Honda problem. Read up people...and relax.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-10-22-toyota22_ST_N.htm?csp=34money
Not sure this is news, but it was to me: Detroit News confirms that the same parts maker is responsible for the recall at both Toyota and Honda, and that maker is Advics from Japan:
http://detnews.com/article/20101022/AUTO01/10220419/1148/rss25
Also, it seems that the fluid would leak from the master cylinder to the booster unit.
Nicolas
http://detnews.com/article/20101022/AUTO01/10220419/1148/rss25
Also, it seems that the fluid would leak from the master cylinder to the booster unit.
Nicolas
I have been using "non-dealer" Brake Fluid such as Generic Store, Valvoline, Castrol, ATE Blue etc. etc. for at least 25 years now in all kinds of cars:
- Honda Civic
- Honda Accord
- Honda Odysseys x 2 generations
- Toyota Camry
- BMW
- Volvo
ZERO problems whatsoever.
Back to this business of recall, let's say the real problem is a bad design of the Master Cylinder (just my theory), Honda is smart, by blaming "non-dealer" Brake Fluid, should any litigation happens in the future, they blame "non-dealer" Brake Fluid. This way they are off the hook.
Maybe after all, the guy running the P.R. dept is smart LOL!
- Honda Civic
- Honda Accord
- Honda Odysseys x 2 generations
- Toyota Camry
- BMW
- Volvo
ZERO problems whatsoever.
Back to this business of recall, let's say the real problem is a bad design of the Master Cylinder (just my theory), Honda is smart, by blaming "non-dealer" Brake Fluid, should any litigation happens in the future, they blame "non-dealer" Brake Fluid. This way they are off the hook.
Maybe after all, the guy running the P.R. dept is smart LOL!
On our old car, a Subaru, the head gaskets would leak when it was really cold, leading to loss of coolant in winter. The solution, as per Subaru: an additive and using their coolant. And it worked! :-/ So it doesn't surprise me to read about small differences between fluids...cnn said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the brake fluid toyota and honda gave their supplier to work with had something in it that prevented the problem but that normal* brake fluid does not contain. It is still Honda and Toyota's fault that they screwed this up, as using a third party fluid should not be a security concern. As I said, it's just not that surprising or unlikely to me.
As a side note, my mechanic (a local shop I patronize for non-warranty work) told me he has to use special PS fluid in Hondas that is less thick than normal stuff. Another case of Honda-specific fluid...
Nicolas
* Normal as in brand-name or shop brand or whatever but DOT compliant. Buying brake fluid shouldn't be rocket science.
That sounds easy, but it really isn't. Even fluid makers (oil, PS, brake, gas, etc.) that say they "meet or exceed" OEM specifications (a marketing gimmick) aren't always true and good to use because they aren't 100% compliant. They may "meet or exceed" certain aspects of the product, but not all. Be careful of what you use.
Something else to watch -
The OEMs are moving towards taking more competitive business away from aftermarket companies so that they retain your business from 'cradle to grave' of your vehicle.
Even in a recent article, Honda claimed that replacement of non-OEM parts could void your warranty. Can you imagine only being able to use parts that you HAVE to buy at the dealer during your warranty period? You know how crappy our brakes and rotors are on the Ody. If you wanted to put slotted Brembo's on for a nice look and better performance, you couldn't do it without voiding your warranty if Honda has their way.
GM is even doing something similar by coming out with their own special additives for their engine oil (dexos). Use a different type of oil and you will damage the engine and void the warranty. And to top it all off, GM will 'license' the dexos approval name to others...of course with a royalty which will make the oil more expensive.
If people don't speak up now, we'll fall into the same trap they have down in Mexico - you HAVE to take your car to the dealership for service (requires a stamp and receipt) else your warranty is voided.
In the case of any litigation, no lawyer will read the press release and say "oh, we can't blame Honda after all". They will subpoena internal Honda documents, e-mails, etc, etc and get the truth, not a P.R. statement.
That all said -- and to more important points -- the story I heard on the radio said Honda was notifying the gov't on Friday. Where is details on the affected models ?
Go to this page, http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recall...ch&date=01/01/2010&type=V&SCR323=false&summary=true&prod_id=0&PrintVersion=YES, and scroll down to about the 3rd listing (will probably move further down over time). It also says
Which is why we have different laws here:marjenmiller said:The OEMs are moving towards taking more competitive business away from aftermarket companies so that they retain your business from 'cradle to grave' of your vehicle.
Even in a recent article, Honda claimed that replacement of non-OEM parts could void your warranty. Can you imagine only being able to use parts that you HAVE to buy at the dealer during your warranty period? You know how crappy our brakes and rotors are on the Ody. If you wanted to put slotted Brembo's on for a nice look and better performance, you couldn't do it without voiding your warranty if Honda has their way.
GM is even doing something similar by coming out with their own special additives for their engine oil (dexos). Use a different type of oil and you will damage the engine and void the warranty. And to top it all off, GM will 'license' the dexos approval name to others...of course with a royalty which will make the oil more expensive.
If people don't speak up now, we'll fall into the same trap they have down in Mexico - you HAVE to take your car to the dealership for service (requires a stamp and receipt) else your warranty is voided.
Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, and the general principle of the Federal Trade Commission Act, a manufacturer can not require the use of any particular brand of hard part, filter or oil, to satisfy fulfillment of a warranty, unless the manufacturer provides the item free of charge, under the terms of the vehicle warranty.
So GM is being smart about it and letter aftermarkets offer a product that meets their specs.
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
