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VSA modulator failure after 19K miles ?

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gregx

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hello, I've used this forum as a great info resource a number of times and thanks for that. So I've got what I thought was an unusual problem, my van's VSA modulator failed after just 19.2 k miles.

Unfortunately, this is an $1100 repair.

I did some searching and this seems to be a very common problem among various models of Honda cars, including odysseys. There are even a few recalls of VSA modulators from various model years (as far as I can tell, mine has not been recalled).

The Honda dealer and corporate are not much help (well, they offered a tiny discount to the huge repair cost, but I could easily equal it with some online part shopping), but I haven't driven the van heavily and I'm outside of my warranty period. And the Honda corporate rep has not been so good on the phone.

I thought Honda was a premium quality designed and manufactured car, but now I'm rethinking that postition. Additionally, from what the Honda dealer told me, this VSA failure also means that my anti-lock brake system is inoperative, and this is not good. Not sure if this correct, but when I asked for more info about the ABS brakes and the VSA system, Honda corporate is not willing to confirm or deny anything. It feels a lot like CYA.

Anybody else here have any similar VSA problems with their van(s)? What happened? How did Honda respond? What did you end up doing?

Thanks for the help and input.
 
Discussion starter · #2 ·
Hello, I've used this forum as a great info resource a number of times and thanks for that. So I've got what I thought was an unusual problem, my van's VSA modulator failed after just 19.2 k miles.

Unfortunately, this is an $1100 repair.

I did some searching and this seems to be a very common problem among various models of Honda cars, including odysseys. There are even a few recalls of VSA modulators from various model years (as far as I can tell, mine has not been recalled).

The Honda dealer and corporate are not much help (well, they offered a tiny discount to the huge repair cost, but I could easily equal it with some online part shopping), but I haven't driven the van heavily and I'm outside of my warranty period. And the Honda corporate rep has not been so good on the phone.

I thought Honda was a premium quality designed and manufactured car, but now I'm rethinking that postition. Additionally, from what the Honda dealer told me, this VSA failure also means that my anti-lock brake system is inoperative, and this is not good. Not sure if this correct, but when I asked for more info about the ABS brakes and the VSA system, Honda corporate is not willing to confirm or deny anything. It feels a lot like CYA.

Anybody else here have any similar VSA problems with their van(s)? What happened? How did Honda respond? What did you end up doing?

Thanks for the help and input.
 
#3 ·
Please tell us more info about your Ody, so we can try and help you:

Year and trim level of your Ody?

What were the symptoms? (i.e. ABS light is on, VSA light is on, etc.)

What issue(s) did the dealer find? (DTCs, damage, etc.)

Was it the original VSA modulator or was it previously replaced (For 2007-2008 Odys, per previous revision of TSB 07-045 - Brake Pedal Is Low and Feels Soft) or serviced (For 2007-2008 Odys, per TSB 10-017 - Safety Recall: Air In VSA Modulator-Control Unit Causes Low/Soft Brake Pedal)?
 
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Discussion starter · #4 ·
Have you had this problem on your odyssey? My van is an LX and the VSA just light came on one day at 19.2K miles.

Took it to the dealer and they connected a diagnostic computer. The diagnostic code indicated a valve failure inside the VSA modulator. No road or external damage to the VSA modulator, just a defective unit. It was the original unit, but one with very little mileage.

The Honda dealer said the only option is a full replacement of the VSA modulator (for $ 1,100 !).

I am familiar of the 'soft brake pedal' recalls, but they don't apply to this unit.

Sadly, this very early failure (and more Honda's very poor "CYA" response) is really making me reconsider ever purchasing a Honda.

I wish I could purchase a Honda again, but their poor product support is getting to be a deal killer.
 
#5 ·
What year is your van?
 
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#6 ·
gregx:

What year is your LX?

What was the DTC (diagnostic trouble code) that the dealer found?

One thing to check is to make sure the VSA modulator-control unit 47P connector is seated properly. Refer to steps 8 and 16 in TSB 10-017 - Safety Recall: Air In VSA Modulator-Control Unit Causes Low/Soft Brake Pedal.
 
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Discussion starter · #7 ·
EE4Life said:
gregx:

What year is your LX?

What was the DTC (diagnostic trouble code) that the dealer found?

One thing to check is to make sure the VSA modulator-control unit 47P connector is seated properly. Refer to steps 8 and 16 in TSB 10-017 - Safety Recall: Air In VSA Modulator-Control Unit Causes Low/Soft Brake Pedal.
Click to expand...
Sorry about that, the van is an '06. It looks the code they retrieved was "66-1: BRAKE PRESSURE SWITCH".

Do you have a link to TSB 10-017? Because if it is just a connector (I hope), I can check that myself. But doing a little internet research, apparently that code seems to indicate a failure within the VSA unit, but I am absolutely not sure of this.

Any other options out there?

It still seems stunning to me that on a honda a unit like this will fail after just 19,000 miles and Honda tells you to take a hike. Not the best for encouraging customer loyolty, that is for sure.
 
#8 ·
Having worked in the industry I can tell you the cutoff for "good will" policy adjustments is typically 5 years or 50,000 if no extended warranty was purchased. Look at this way. There will be mechanical failures. They cannot afford to warranty it forever. Unless the component is a high enough failure rate that is justifies a more aggressive good will policy you will have to eat it. Regardless of the miles the car is 6 years old. I can pretty much guarantee you would get the same response from every other auto manufacturer out there including the luxo brands.
 
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Discussion starter · #9 ·
pkrface said:
Having worked in the industry I can tell you the cutoff for "good will" policy adjustments is typically 5 years or 50,000 if no extended warranty was purchased. Look at this way. There will be mechanical failures. They cannot afford to warranty it forever. Unless the component is a high enough failure rate that is justifies a more aggressive good will policy you will have to eat it. Regardless of the miles the car is 6 years old. I can pretty much guarantee you would get the same response from every other auto manufacturer out there including the luxo brands.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with you about just random things failing with time.

But even a brief online search reveals a very large no. of early VSA failures among the whole range of Honda vehicles with VSA modulators, including odysseys. That's kind of the problem for me.

Honda knows that there is a problem out there. My VSA failed after my van was started after sitting for just a couple of days and that seems to be the pattern.
 
#10 ·
I had the brake master cylinder fail in May at 15,000 miles on my 08 EX-L. The cost of the repair covered more than half the cost of the extended warranty I purchased when I bought the Ody. As they say stuff happens, even with a Honda. Thesse beasts are now integrated systems of computers and complex mechanical parts. It doesn't take much to cause a component to fail. That's why I have always purchased an extended warranty on my last three vehicle purchases. I may be unlucky but I have always had the cost of my extended warranty covered by unexpected failures.
 
#11 · (Edited)
One more question. Are you the original owner?

I know you said in your original post the VSA module is a somewhat common problem, but I had never heard of that being an issue, so it went over my head at the time. If you had said motor mount, a/c compressor, or transmission it would have caught my attention.
 
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#12 ·
gregx:

Here is info from the service manual for troubleshooting VSA DTC 66-1.

Since you don't have the HDS, get the code cleared by someone with the HDS or a scan tool or you can disconnect the battery for a bit and reconnect to clear the code. I would also get your battery checked out to make sure it is in good health, given you stated that the CEL (check engine light) appeared after you started the Ody after it was sitting for a couple of days.

DTC 66: VSA Pressure Sensor (Inside of VSA Modulator-Control Unit)

1. Clear the DTC using the HDS.

2. Test-drive the vehicle.

Does the ABS indicator come on, and is DTC 66 indicated?

YES - Replace the VSA modulator-control unit.

NO - The system is OK at this time.
 
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Discussion starter · #14 ·
EE4Life said:
gregx:

Here is info from the service manual for troubleshooting VSA DTC 66-1.

Since you don't have the HDS, get the code cleared by someone with the HDS or a scan tool or you can disconnect the battery for a bit and reconnect to clear the code. I would also get your battery checked out to make sure it is in good health, given you stated that the CEL (check engine light) appeared after you started the Ody after it was sitting for a couple of days.

DTC 66: VSA Pressure Sensor (Inside of VSA Modulator-Control Unit)

1. Clear the DTC using the HDS.

2. Test-drive the vehicle.

Does the ABS indicator come on, and is DTC 66 indicated?

YES - Replace the VSA modulator-control unit.

NO - The system is OK at this time.
Click to expand...
Thanks very much for the info. The battery was changed maybe 1-2 months max before the code popped up. The orignal battery did go dead.

If I wanted to fully clear out the code and VSA light, how long do I need to disconnect the battery? 60 min? 24 hours?

I never got a check engine light, I just have a constant 'VSA!' light that does not go away (obviously). I have driven it this way now for about 30 days and there is no change. Never got an 'ABS' light either. But I am not sure with the dry weather here if the ABS system has been commanded on (in the last 30 days).

I welcome any more info or clues to avoid a $1000 repair.

Thanks again!
 
#15 ·
5 minutes should be long enough to clear the code. I have done this on domestic cars and 30 seconds is enough for them.
 
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Discussion starter · #16 ·
pkrface said:
5 minutes should be long enough to clear the code. I have done this on domestic cars and 30 seconds is enough for them.
Click to expand...
I disconnected the battery for ~30 min (I got a phone call while doing it). Anyway, reconnected the battery, started the van, but the 'VSA!' light came right back on. I didn't even have to drive it. So is it pretty safe to say that there is a fault in the VSA unit?
 
#17 ·
Probably, but there could also be an electrical issue (pinched wire, bad connection, etc.) that could be causing the ECM to throw the fault. This is the kind of repair I would be inclined to take to the dealer. If you buy the VSA module and install it yourself and it is not the issue, the module will be nonreturnable, as is the case with all electrical parts. If you sourced a junk yard part at 1/2 the cost of new it might be worth the gamble. JMO of course.
 
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#18 ·
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#19 ·
19K miles on a ~7yr/old van?!? Does this van sit most of the time or does it see lots of very short trips?

I know what I would do.. and it wouldn't include spending ~$1200 at a Honda dealer to make the light go away. If I couldn't easily and relatively cheaply fix it myself, that light would be on forever.

Joel
 
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Discussion starter · #20 ·
MTPockets08 said:
19K miles on a ~7yr/old van?!? Does this van sit most of the time or does it see lots of very short trips?

I know what I would do.. and it wouldn't include spending ~$1200 at a Honda dealer to make the light go away. If I couldn't easily and relatively cheaply fix it myself, that light would be on forever.

Joel
Click to expand...
The van is used for moving some large items, a few road trips, etc. But, no, it doesn't get a lot of use. And, believe me, I am tempted to do nothing (if I can't fix it myself), but we live in the Midwest (snow, ice, etc.). While I don't think the vehicle stability feature is super critical for us, when the VSA modulator has a fault like this, Honda tells me that the ABS function on the brakes is also inoperative. And the ABS brake system is something that kicks in quite regularly every winter. So I'd rather not lose that, it might just save our skin someday.

Having a problem like this is an interesting way to see how Honda deals with customer problems, like the failure of a $1000 part after just 19k miles. A part that has quite a record of failing very early on many, many Honda vehicles. And so far, Honda's (Honda corporate) reaction and their converstations with me have been pretty dreadful.

An unfortunate word of warning to those thinking about the purchase of a new Honda.
 
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