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beocop

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

Several weeks ago, the timing belt started making a whining noise but van still ran fine. There is additional engine vibration with this noise. It is readily heard in the cabin. In engine bay, the noise can be clearly heard when the timing inspection/TDC plug(s) [front and/or rear] is removed. The sound is still there even without the PS and alternator belt off. The sound is like the one in this link:
.
Background:
Currently the van is at 127K miles. At 100K miles, I had a garage replace all timing components (TB, water pump, idler pulley, tensioner, hydraulic tensioner, accessory belts).
I originally suspected the hydraulic tensioner or pulley(s) was bad but went out and bought all timing components just in case any was bad. I personally opened everything up and replaced the tensioner, hydraulic tensioner and idler pulley. I checked the current timing belt and it looked very good. I spun the water pump pulley and it spun easily and without noise. Thus, I did not replace the TB and water pump. I checked the removed tensioners and idler pulley and everything looks and feels new. The old hydraulic tension still had a lot of tension. The pulleys spun without noise. After I put the timing belt on and without the accessory belts, I turned on the van to see if everything was OK. The engine ran fine. It was hard to listen for the whining sound because without the covers, the engine was quite noisy. So I put everything back. Once everything was back on, the whining sound still exists.

I searched for other cases of people having the same sound. Most of the cases involved having the wrong tension on the TB. People solved this problem by adjusting the tension on the TB. In my case, the tension is not adjustable since the tension is automatically done by the hydraulic tensioner. How can I change the tension on the TB?
Could it be a noisy belt? water pump?

I am out of idea. I was just going to go back and replace the TB and water pump and see if these will solve the problem but have doubts.

Please help!

Thanks all,
 
Its really hard to make that sound out with all the other sound... my first step would be to put a mechanics stethescope on individual places on all moving accessories and timing belt components. Something will definately be screaming in your ears.... You can buy one from harbour freight for less than 5 dollars...
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the suggestion. I did use a stethescope and put it on as many components as I can to see if there is any weird sound. I can hear spin of the PS pump, alternator, and engine valve ticks fine. No harsh bearing sound. I can't hear the droning noise with the stethoscope. I couldn't check the cam or crank bearings for noise since these are moving components with belts running. I am starting to think it's belt irregularities because sound is cyclic and periodic. You can almost time the droning sound. I am just hoping other people have encountered a problem similar because I don't want to have to open up the timing belt again without a sure course of action.

Its really hard to make that sound out with all the other sound... my first step would be to put a mechanics stethescope on individual places on all moving accessories and timing belt components. Something will definately be screaming in your ears.... You can buy one from harbour freight for less than 5 dollars...
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Can you describe your problem with the input shaft bearing in the transmission? Just to clarify, are you saying that my problem might be in the transmission? Are you sure it's not the input shaft bearing on the water pump? I am having the noise at idle (in P,N,R,all D gears). The noise and vibration is constant although heard less during acceleration and at higher speed. Since I am getting the noise at idle when the vehicle is not in motion, I don't think it's transmission related. Please give me more insight. Thanks.

just had this same issue,,, i bet its the input shaft bearing in the trans, took us weeks to figure out the wine noise...
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
UPDATE:

Over the weekend I opened up the timing belt again and replaced both the timing belt and the water pump. The water pump still looked good and new since it's only been 26K miles. The timing belt also looked fine. After I put everything back, the noise heard before is gone. I am guessing that the belt was the culprit of the noise since the water pump still looked and sound perfect. I am still confused on how the belt could cause the noise (teeth profile?) It can't be the tensioner since tension is done by the hydraulic tensioner and I didn't change the tensioner this time.

Next problems to address:
1- There was some leakage from the crankshaft seal. I tried for hours but couldn't take out the woodruff key. It is stuck in there. I decided to address the leak another time because I was dead tired. Is there an easier way to take that key out?

2- Some vibration at idle of ~700-720 rpm. Can be felt on the steering wheel and cabin in all gears. Can't really feed vibration after the car is in motion. I already changed the passenger and front engine (with vacuum hose, verified vacuum suction at idle) mounts. I checked the transmission mounts and rear mount (opened up the "flaps" to see inside the mount). From what I can actual see, they all looked OK but it is still difficult see much under cramped quarters. No clunking/noise during shifting P/R/D. No drastic visual movement when in gear and under load.
Any ideas of what to do next to diagnose this vibration (taking out the rear mount would be my last choice)?
 
i run 91 octane fuel all the time in my odyssey, runs better,more power and better fuel economy, when i run the cheap gas i get a little vibration at idle and sometimes can feel it when ime going up a big hill. try a tank of high grade fuel and see what happens..
 
UPDATE:
...
1- There was some leakage from the crankshaft seal. I tried for hours but couldn't take out the woodruff key. It is stuck in there. I decided to address the leak another time because I was dead tired. Is there an easier way to take that key out?
...
First off - that engine looks and sounds very cool (other than the problems).

Regarding the woodruff key, this is from memory, but hopefully it is enough to get you to solve it: The key is jammed in there tight right now because it is doing its job of stopping the T-belt drive pulley from rotating on the crank shaft. If you could hold the shaft stationary and rotate the pulley the other way, the key would then be jammed tight against the opposite sides of the grooves. So what you want to do is to move it right in between, so the grooves are aligned and the key will slide out easily. The easiest way to do this is to hold onto the key, pulling it out, while somehow rotating the pulley relative to the shaft. When the grooves line up, it will pull right out. Make sense?
 
Discussion starter · #13 · (Edited)
OdyVanMan04: I'll try a higher octane and see if it helps. I don't really like doing it this way because it is just masking the problem and is not a real solution. But if higher octane gas reduces vibration then I can narrow the problem down to the ignition system, intake, valves.



oldskewel: "The easiest way to do this is to hold onto the key, pulling it out, while somehow rotating the pulley relative to the shaft. When the grooves line up, it will pull right out."

Can I rotate the crankshaft by rotating the camshaft?
Someone else who had a stuck key suggested wedging a small jewelry flat-head tip beneath the pin to dislodge it. I'll try that also next time.
 
i run 91 octane fuel all the time in my odyssey, runs better,more power and better fuel economy, when i run the cheap gas i get a little vibration at idle and sometimes can feel it when ime going up a big hill. try a tank of high grade fuel and see what happens..
99-01 are recommended premium over 91 octane for a reason... otherwise they will retard the timing, lose power, and get less mpg. They always run better with higher octane.
 
If you apply and release vacuum to the front mount, it should exhibit a difference in feel at idle, with and without a load. Test procedure is in factory manual. I would have an assistant brake torque it in d and r and check for excess movement, or ripped mounts before i did anything else. esp rear trans mount..
 
For some reason your belt got too tight and that always makes timing belts whine.. seen this before
 
If there are no obvious signs of ripped or damaged mounts, i would suspect the front one. It is fluid filled and does the dampening...
 
oldskewel: "The easiest way to do this is to hold onto the key, pulling it out, while somehow rotating the pulley relative to the shaft. When the grooves line up, it will pull right out."

Can I rotate the crankshaft by rotating the camshaft?
Someone else who had a stuck key suggested wedging a small jewelry flat-head tip beneath the pin to dislodge it. I'll try that also next time.
Yes, but more specifically, what you're suggesting (I think) is to rotate one of the cam pulleys, which will move the t-belt, which will rotate the T-belt drive pulley on the crankshaft. You're relying on the crankshaft's inertia and cylinder compression to keep it from following along. All you need to do is to move the drive pulley very slightly with respect to the crankshaft (like one degree) to get the woodruff key slot to free up.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
Yes, but more specifically, what you're suggesting (I think) is to rotate one of the cam pulleys, which will move the t-belt, which will rotate the T-belt drive pulley on the crankshaft. You're relying on the crankshaft's inertia and cylinder compression to keep it from following along. All you need to do is to move the drive pulley very slightly with respect to the crankshaft (like one degree) to get the woodruff key slot to free up.
OK. I get ya. I guess I can put a vise grip (with rag) and wiggle the crankshaft. I only remembered that the crankshaft was tough to rotate (even with breaker bar).
 
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