[lextalionis]

*preface...sorry for the multiple posts and long posts but I wanted to clearly explain my story. The last few of my OPs are more detailed about the repair whereas the first few are more background.

Well, our 2002 Honda Odyssey EX is back on the road after a transmission rebuild by Eagle Transmission, Inc. here in South Austin, TX. Tim Kilpatrick (manager) worked with me similarly as a service rep.

The history:

 Bought a 2002 Honda Odyssey EX/Leather in 2005 from Roger Beasly Volvo in Georgetown, TX for about $18K with 33K miles on it.  When we bought it we did note that the 2nd gear oil-jet atop the transmission fill plug was installed.  Also the so-called “warming plate” was not present and from what I hear that was good.  At 50K I had a transmission service done at the only Honda Dealership in Jefferson City, MO while on a family visit.  At ~ 60K the upper/passenger-side motor mount failed and was replaced.  At 71K I performed a 3X drain/fill of the transmission oil (using only genuine Honda Z1 fluid) and I installed a Hayden Class I 1100# stacked plate/fin cooler and a Magnefine filter on the return to the transmission.

 

[lextalionis]

The details are found here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/motleypixel/tags/transmission/ and here: http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55452&perpage=15&highlight=&pagenumber=1

At 90K miles, our transmission failed:

So the issue occurred abruptly; when we piled into the van this past Friday to head out to dinner, I noticed a longer pause than normal going from reverse to drive, subtle but I did notice it.

About 2 miles later, I was at 50mph on the hwy and the tranny came out of gear and the tac jumped. I let off the gas and coasted until about 5 seconds later when the tranny engaged into gear again. At this point there was an obvious problem. I drove another ½ mile to an AutoZone where I pulled in and checked the level. The level was fine and the color looked decent to me, but it was getting dark. I asked the sales clerk at AutoZone to hook up the computer and that read clear.

 

[lextalionis]

I called Scott (mechanic friend) and he seemed quick to bring up how many issues he’s ran into with the Ody vans (the weakest link being the tranny as he put it). He recommended I drive straight home. Well, I decided to drive a few more miles down the road (maybe 5 more miles) to our destination. In a sort-of bitter sweet way I wanted the CEL so it would start ****ting codes for me.

On the way to our destination the slipping occurred two more times and on the way back home it occurred about 2 more times and finally the CEL with the TCS light came on. I pulled into AutoZone and the computer pulled a P0740 code TCC failure (torque converter) which today I understand could be more or less in failures pertaining to the tranny, as the trans shop won’t know until they tear it out to rebuild it.

 

[lextalionis]

All that preventative maintenance and still the transmission crapped out before 100K. Today I hear back from Eagle Transmission about the damage to my pocket book. They are keeping every failed component. I intend to photograph every failed component and split open both the magnefine filter and the external factory filter. I heard that Eagle is the best in Austin (many transmission repairs R/R are done here including the two local Car Max facilities outsource transmission work here). I asked them to inspect my cooler/filter work...my sub-conscience is telling me I may have done something wrong and they response was that what I did could have done nothing more than help keep the fluid cooler and extend the life of the transmission.

I intend to document every line of detail from the very day I bought the vehicle and write Honda. Sure I'm mad and sure it would be nice, at minimum, if the damn transmission would have never failed.

 

[lextalionis]

Now here’s what was found on the repair/rebuild:

Below is a scan of the repair order. The total cost came out to $3,389.28. Outside of the tranny rebuild, the work included a rear main engine seal and the front lower engine mount replaced (wonder how long that was bad). Tim said the major failure was localized to the torque converter. The 3rd and 2nd gear clutch plates/packs were not damaged/fused/welded together like he sees most of the time which is due most of the time to insufficient oil flow. Noticed they also replace two linear solenoids. He said these failed the bench test so they were replaced. I’m just not sure what the failure of these linear solenoids would have caused?

 

[lextalionis]

When I asked Tim about my Hayden class I stacked plate oil cooler and magnefine filter install whether it had any impact and he said the cooler was the best thing I could have done and although the magnefine filters are great filters, they can actually do harm if they are not changed religiously every 5K miles since they collect so much particulate so fast. Well, that worried me because I did as suggested by magnefine and that was to replace every 12 months... I probably had 12K miles on it. I installed the filter at 71K (July 09) just before a trip to central MO from central TX (2K mile round trip) and then just this July right before our return visit I installed a new magnefine filter (12 months later). Anyway they installed the rebuilt tranny w/o a magnefine and cut back in my oil cooler. It’s doubtful that my magnefine had anything to do with my tranny failure since if it had it would probably have burned up 3rd gear clutch pack.

 

[lextalionis]

Still very interesting…I think I’m staying away from the magenefine and instead, at 20K intervals replace the screw-on external filter canister. Tim gave me two of them (free of charge) and did so because I was the only customer asking about them.

I also learned from Tim that many of these transmissions (02’ +/- a year or so) have what Honda calls a warming plate and he has seen plenty of times when they get clogged up it can become the source of premature failure to these transmissions. In every case where they rebuild these if they have one with the “warming plate” they take the coolant loop (think of it as an aux heater core loop) and simply plug each end or loop it together. Then the throw away the warming plate exchanger and replace it with some sort of capping assembly and then they cut in an aux cooler. My 02’ Ody did not have this warming plate.

 

[lextalionis]

So now I’m in a break-in period and between 200 and 500 miles I bring it back to have it inspected and the 3/36 warranty blessed (it’s an ATSG Nation-Wide warranty). They will also put one solid return hose from the return of my cooler back to my transmission since they just spliced where the magnefine used to be with a brass barb fitting (I told them I wanted this done on the phone and he recalled it but said his mechanic wasn’t informed and left it that way because I may want to use a new magenefine). All-in-all I can tell Tim and his shop/crew know what they are doing.

My game plan? Simple…never buy a large Honda vehicle again…drive it like my granny drives it and drop the 2.5qts of tranny oil every other oil change and replace the external canister filter every 20K.

Whew…thank you Honda!

-Roy Niswanger
p.s. more to come in the form of detailed photos of the replaced components and split open filters

 

[OdyinNH]

Thanks for posting the update, sounds like you found a good place to do business with. I agree with these transmissions being crappy but they seem to have a rock solid one in the new vehicles. From what I hear the Ridgeline tranny is really good. Hopefully they have learned from their mistakes.

 

[lextalionis]

Okay here's a quick video showing all my replaced parts. I also cut open the Magnefine and internal filter.

http://vimeo.com/17993794

-Roy

 

[New Dad New Van]

Although I agree that a Magnefine ATF filter will accumulate alot of debris fast in a transmission that is generating much debris, the filter is designed to bypass when full. I do not agree with the person you talked to that it accelerated your transmission failure.

Great thread BTW!

 

[lextalionis]

Although I agree that a Magnefine ATF filter will accumulate alot of debris fast in a transmission that is generating much debris, the filter is designed to bypass when full. I do not agree with the person you talked to that it accelerated your transmission failure.

Great thread BTW!

Interesting, I'd like to find Magnefine documentation detailing this design. He did say they are great filters (meaning they filter great) but should be replaced every 5K miles.

-Roy

 

[New Dad New Van]

Here are some FAQs and answers from their website: http://www.emergingent.com/magnefine/faq.htm

 

[lextalionis]

Guys, post 1 year and about 9 months after the rebuild and all seems find EXCEPT, one odd issue which I'm finally getting around to bringing it back to Eagle Transmission South Austin. Ever since the rebuild of the transmission the van seems to idle rough in gear, especially once hot. At times when I come in from a hot run (50+ mph) and come to a complete stop the van can stall (die). I never really thought about transmission until I spoke to my father-in-law about it last week. I figured it was something else and of course it still could be...rough idle...yep, could be a number of things. Here's what I know:

.5 Transmission work done at 89K and current mileage is 109K
1. No idiot lamps.
2. Not sure about computer, but a computer was hooked up about 6 months ago and it didn't show any codes.
3. About 4 months ago the EGR valve was replaced, EGR passages cleaned, spark plugs replaced, both O2 sensors replaced, timing belt job performed, and fuel pump was checked. (all of this work had no effect on the rough idle.
4. I’m on my second case of Honda Transmission fluid, as I drain 3.5 qts. every oil change…keeping the fluid fresh. I guess I’m hyper-sensitive now. And in case I didn’t mention, the Magnefine filter is no longer being used…only the plate and fin cooler.

The father-in-law said, from my description, that it sounds like what would happen with a manual transmission when in gear when the clutch is let out partially. We know what happens when the clutch is let out all the way in gear (stall). Wondering if anyone know if this could be a behavior of fluid pressure resulting in not enough slippage in drive when the car is stopped? Could this be solenoid related in any way? Anyone hear of such issue?

Thanks,
Roy

 

[Rando]

I found this info to be interesting.

Sonnax - Aftermarket replacement transmission, torque converter, and high performance automotive parts

 

[sontakke]

That symptom most likely point to Idle Air Control Valve; get that cleaned first.

 

[0dyfamily]

You might want to check the power steering pressure switch. It is one of many analog and digital feeds to the PCM, and people with this problem on their 99-04 Odys have noted gently surging idle in Park, and occasional stumbling and the engine quitting while in gear at a stop.

Power Steering Wire Fix

I checked out your video. The "steels" are supposed to be smooth, and as you noted, grooves & gouging are not good. Your "frictions" appear to have adequate friction material. There are five clutch packs in a 2002 A/T, and I'm willing to bet that the half-dozen or so from the third clutch were worn completely smooth due to inadequate ATF flow causing localized overheating, which causes rapid wearing of the clutch frictions in that 3rd clutch pack. This was documented by the NHTSA. The debris fills up the sump strainer, which is the filter you pick up at 3:07 in your video. This then restricts flow to the entire A/T. It's a real disaster. More info on this page:

Tranny Problems Root Cause(s)

Thanks for posting this. The video is excellent for seeing what an internal filter clogged with 3rd clutch and torque converter clutch debris looks like.

OF

 

[lextalionis]

I forgot to mention, I took apart the IACV and cleaned it with carb cleaner...not that this would have fixed it if it were broke but that evolution had no effect.

Thanks OF...so even it the idling smooths out fine when the transmission is put into neutral or park, it could still be the PS Wire issue? Is the thinking like a manual transmission clutch release and stalling the car too far fetched? I really want to go through as many check as possible before bring it back to Eagle Transmission...it's such a headache since the shop is so far away and they would need to keep the car a couple of days due to work load.

I'm going to read the PS Wire fix thread...hopefully this is something I can do in my driveway this late afternoon.

Thanks,
Roy

 

[lextalionis]

Made an update in the PS Wire fix thread...LOL...I belive I checked this back over a year ago...just forgot. BIG difference is that my idle is smooth as butter in park or neutral, just in park or other gear is when it tries to stall.

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/9-pro...ring-wire-fix-pix-erratic-idle-problem-2.html

Thanks,
Roy

 

[0dyfamily]

Roy, you're right, smooth idle in P or N is usually an indication that the wire is still good.

This place is getting to be the size of Wikipedia in terms of information. I can now understand why dvpatel says to use search and add to existing threads only.

OF