Honda Odyssey Forum banner

121 - 140 of 389 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I would like to point out that if you are repairing your stator with solder make sure the solder has a high melting point. I know different solders have different melting temperatures. Does anyone know the temperature the thermal fuse blows out in the stator?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
I would like to point out that if you are repairing your stator with solder make sure the solder has a high melting point. I know different solders have different melting temperatures. Does anyone know the temperature the thermal fuse blows out in the stator?
The thermal fuse rating: I called Denso USA technical division, they don't know (or pretend) who makes the AC Stator for them.

I have a Non-Contact Infrared thermometer ($15-$20 online) and used it to measure temp.
The AC compressor temp is 75C during a very hot day (110F ambient temp, car had AC for 1h, idling on my driveway with AC running).

Amazon.com: BAFX Products (TM) - Non Contact Infrared (IR) Temperature Thermometer / Tester Gun - BATTERY INCLUDED!: Home Improvement


The typical lead-free solder has a typical meting point of 180C or so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
I'm trying to figure out why my clutch burned up. The faces of the disk and pressure plate were both heavily damaged from heat.
I'm wondering if maybe the clutch wasn't properly backing off when released. Should the splined shaft be lubed? If so, with what?

It seemed to come off fairly easily but it didn't have any lube on it when I took it off.

I'm concerned it was sticking and contacting enough to damage it but not engage. In that scenario the gap wouldn't make any difference. Any thoughts?

We didn't measure the clearance so I don't know what it was. From what we could tell visually and from the service records I have the A/C was never worked on before. That should mean it had the factory clearance. I don't know what that says but I've always thought Honda had good quality production so they should've set it right at the factory. I'll make sure to measure the gap so we'll know for sure if it was too tight.

I'm awaiting parts to fix it and I want to make sure I set it up with the best chance of a long life I can.
Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
If you google:

"Why AC clutch burns"

"Honda why AC clutch burns"

You will see the causes:
1. Low Voltage to AC Stator (for ex: bad ground wire)

2. Large air gap

3. Compressor locking up/seizing.
This is unlikely to be your case.
Just spin the AC Clutch (after you install it), if the AC Clutch can turn with some resistance, the compressor is OK, not seizing.

Just install the new AC Stator, new AC Clutch set and you will be good for another 100K miles.


PS: I used a bit of antiseize on the pulley bearing INNER race area (where it is mounted on the compressor) and splines to make future removal easier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
I am not sure I mentioned this before but per Honda manual (actually this is generic principle, not just Honda), when inserting the feeler gauge, do not insert it more than 3mm into the narrow gap, doing so may give you the incorrect reading.

Below is a generic picture to show the correct method to insert a feeler gauge:


ACGapFeeler.JPG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
I am not sure I mentioned this before but per Honda manual (actually this is generic principle, not just Honda), when inserting the feeler gauge, do not insert it more than 3mm into the narrow gap, doing so may give you the incorrect reading.

Below is a generic picture to show the correct method to insert a feeler gauge:


View attachment 12879
Just to clarify. Should the clearance be measured between pressure plate and area of clutch that it touches? The picture suggests something else.
The 99-04 service manual says use a dial indicator. Don't have a dial indicator. Just primitive feeler gauges, bent and straight. "Measure the clearance between the pulley (A) and pressure plate (B) with a dial indicator. Zero out the indicator. Then apply battery voltage to the compressor clutch. Measure the movement of the pressure plate when voltage is applied. If the clearance is not within the specified limits, the pressure plate must be re shimmed. Clearance : 0.5 plus or minus 0.015mm (0.020 plus or minus 0.006 in)"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Hey I thought I'd ask a few questions here. Get some advice, and see if I'm doing anything right...

I have a 2002 Odyssey EX. It has 150K+ miles. There has not been any work done on any of the AC components.

Last week the AC stopped working. My wife said the next day, it worked for a few minutes, but quit again. I was out of town, but am back now and have been trying to diagnose the problem.

The compressor is not running. The clutch relay seems good. I put a new one in and it still did not engage the compressor. If I jump the 12v pin to the clutch where the relay plugs in, the clutch engages. Does that mean the stator is good?(when I do this, the air coming out of the vent does cool down, but i'm not sure if it is as cool as it should be.)

I did try and check the resistance to the clutch with an ohmmeter, and it did peg the gauge. I'm not sure I did it right. I grounded one side and touched the spot where the relay plugs in that goes to the clutch. Not sure If I had the meter set right.

I have not checked refrigerant pressure. I like new tools as much as the next guy, but I'm hesitant to spend $100 on the AC gauges. I'm considering buying a can of refrigerant and check the low pressure side with the gauge it comes with.

Anything I could do more? or better? I'm fairly handy, I rebuilt the power steering pump a couple months ago. That being said when electrical or refrigerant systems are involved, I'm a little out of my element.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
...Clearance : 0.5 plus or minus 0.015mm (0.020 plus or minus 0.006 in)"
I don't know of any mechanic using dial indicator for AC Clutch gap, which is usually measured by feeler blade.

- The specs you quoted do not seem correct, you probably meant 0.5 +/- 0.15mm.

- It does not matter what car you drive, the AC Clutch Gap is very standard, about 0.30-0.60mm for Denso or any other makers (Sanko, Zexel etc.) out there.
- Do not confuse this with the picture I posted saying do not insert the feeler blade more than 3mm deep.
- In other words, when you insert the feeler blade, just push it into the gap a little bit, about 2-3mm of insertion and that is all: don't force the feeler blade too deep inside the gap, that is the idea.

- Anyway, I will post another photo to show the same concept f how to insert the feeler blade.

-----
@hardly,

The 2nd gen Ody is not known to have this AC Stator issue (no thermal fuse).
Check your R134a pressure first. The gauge is $15 at local autoparts store.



AcGap.JPG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
I have cold air blowing once again! On our 2007 Ody EX-L with 73k, I ordered the stator from Air parts in Florida, the body clips from eBay, and serpentine belt tool from harbor freight. AutoZone tool loan for the ac clutch removal tool. My pulley came of pretty easy, but the circlip and then larger snap ring were the hardest parts.

From the factory both rings were facing towards the front, so getting snap ring pliers was nearly impossible due to frame and clearance. If I had known this I would ordered these

Motion Pro Master Cylinder Snap-Ring Pliers 08-0279:Amazon:Automotive

Finally after using a flat blade screw driver to help turn the rings, I removed them. Put the air parts stator on, which is 100% identical to the Honda original, reassembled and gapped using the two original shims, to around .40.

Thanks to cnn and the others before me who helped by commenting and creating tutorials.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
govhogg,

I had the same issues as you did: the snap rings open on the front from factory.
I did the same thing as you did: I used a screwdriver to turn the open ends of the snap rings toward the rear so I can access, then the standard snap ring pliers (actually modified a bit as mentioned in the Tutorial) did the rest.

I hope you never have to fix this again with the AC Stator from Air Parts Inc.

However, I think it is good practice to check the AC Gap once a year just to be sure it is within specs: it is a very very easy thing to do, simply insert the feeler blade and that is all.

Please update the thread from time to time as to how things go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I've used the forum to resolve numerous issues on my '07 Ody, and just wanted to thank all the contributors to this thread. I did have a bad relay on my condensor fan (different thread), but shortly after I fixed that, the non-cooling problem returned. When troubleshooting using the ideas in this thread, I skipped step one in checking the R134a pressures, because I didn't have a set of guages. I did have the tools to check the relays and the clutch / stator, so I did those first. Fortunately, I was simply low on refrigerant, so the fix was pretty simple.

One thing to consider when troubleshooting is to be sure and turn the temperature setting in the van all of the way to lo before starting. If it's not really hot outside, the auto setting (or even a temperature setting near ambient) could cause you some issues in troubleshooting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
I think I may have exact same problem.
Mine is 06, EX-L, 102000 miles.
Shop just told me that the "coil" on AC compressor is bad, and they have to replace the whole compressor... and I was advised that it'd be wise to replace "receiver dryer" and "expansion valve" altogether. $1550.

I told them that I'm on my way to get the van right now.

I'll be doing this diagnostics tonight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
...I told them that I'm on my way to get the van right now.

I'll be doing this diagnostics tonight.
Jason,

At 102K miles, my advice is:

- Replace the Stator ($40 from Air Parts in Ocala Florida) and the Clutch Set (Pulley + Clutch Plate), which is about $140 online.

- Use the instruction as mentioned above. I found a new trick to hold the clutch plate stable while you undo the 10-mm bolt: buy a very long screwdriver (maybe 16" flat screwdriver, about $8-$10): wedge the flat part of the screwdriver against the clutch plate rivet and the butt of the screwdriver against the passenger-side axle. It worked like a charm. I will post some photos later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
I just discovered something interesting, a friend with 2008 Ody has zero issues with the AC system, even at 100K miles!

So I looked up Denso PN for different years/models:

---> 2005-2007 Ody: Denso Compressor 471-1630

---> 2008-2010 Ody: Denso Compressor 471-1638 or 471-1639 ( +/- VCM)

So it looks like this problem of burned clutch/stator is unique to Denso Compressor 471-1630!!!
The exact causes remain to be determined.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
I FIXED IT !

It was the plug that goes into AC Stator. I pulled the plug, gave it a good clean with alcohol, plugged it back in, and works like a charm.

Gosh I hate these auto repair shops.

I'm taking my family out for a nice dinner tonight, in my ice-cold Odyssey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
Per my conversation with Denso headquarter (Long Beach CA) today:

---> 2005-2007 Ody: Denso Compressor 471-1630

---> 2008-2010 Ody: Denso Compressor 471-1638 or 471-1639 ( +/- VCM)
Comparing with 471-1630, 471-1638 or 471-1639 has about 10 cc less in displacement, maybe this reduces the head pressure and maybe this is why we don't see burned Stator in 2008-2010 models?
Not sure why Honda redesigned the AC compressor half way through the 3rd Generation Ody.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Update on 07 Odyssey EX-L with the Air Parts stator as recommended by cnn. Our A/C has been ice cold (knock on wood) since I replaced the Honda factory thermal fuse stator with the one from Air parts. I haven't had any issues with it at all. I would not want to try and do the installation again, simply because there really is not a lot of working room and the Honda factory thought it was a great idea to place the snap ring open ends facing towards the front of the van. When you are underneath, those have to be rotated 180 degrees to the back so that you can get them off. Wasn't easy, but, I saved $1000 if I were to have had the dealer fix it. Totally happy with the stator without thermal fuse, and remember, this van made it through a very hot Texas August and September last year, so it was working at max capacity daily for months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
UPDATE on my AC saga and tips/tricks:

- Aug 2010: AC Stator failure at 3yr/37K miles (good will repair total was $600, I paid $300).

- May 2011: AC Stator failure again at 4yr/45K miles (free fix under the 12m warranty!).

- June 2012: AC Stator failure at 5yr/60K miles, fixed this myself with new Honda Stator.

- May 2013: AC Stator and Clutch melted at 6yr/76K miles.
This time I use "Air Parts" Stator (w/o Thermal Fuse...$40 on ebay. and Honda Clutch set 38900-RGM-505 ($140 online).

This is probably the last time I replace the Stator and AC Clutch, next time, I will probably get a new Denso compressor (471-1630 for $240).

------------

Now I am getting used to this, I can do this whole thing (replacing Stator, AC Clutch) for about 1 hour. Unfortunately, I am getting good at this!

1. RF tire on wood ramp, turned all the way to the Right.
Remove a few clips holding panels (pry the cnter pin out with flat screwdriver first!).
Then use Vise-Grips to hold the plastic liner out of the way as shown.


OdyStatorFix06.jpg


2. The ticket is the 16-inch screwdriver, got this from Menards hardware store for $8!
Once you wedge the butt of the screwdriver against the axle shaft and the tip of the screwdriver against the rivet of the AC Clutch, it is a breeze to undo the 10-mm bolt.
- For installation, just use the opposite rivet on the AC Clutch. The 10-mm bolt does not require much torque: 18 Nm. Basically finger-tight, then a twist. I use a drop of Loctite just in case. I set the Air Gap to 0.30 mm.


OdyStatorFix07.jpg


3. See new Clutch Set (Pulley + Clutch Plate). Compare with old set with 30K miles. Somehow the heat build-up killed the rubber damper inside the Clutch Plate, causing separation.


OdyStatorFix09.JPG


OdyStatorFix08.jpg


4. Once the above repair is done, I verify the entire system for integrity. A review of the AC Circuit and the Anatomy of the Fuse Box.


ACCircuit.jpg


OdyStatorFix10.jpg


5. Diode check: set DMM to “diode”. One side is infinity, the reverse direction is 80 Ohm. So the diode is OK.


OdyStatorFix11.JPG


6. Check ground connection at Battery Black cable and at Engine as shown, looked good:


OdyStatorFix12.jpg


OdyStatorFix13.JPG


7. I have no clue why my Stator thermal fuse is burned once a year. I suspect some sort of electrical issues (a weak current can cause weak magnetic field ---> AC Clutch slipping ---> heat destroys the thermal fuse and the rubber damper in the AC Clutch).
- With engine running, HVAC Blower on Max, Headlight ON, Rear defroster ON to create max load, voltage was solid at 14V. AC button ON:
- Verified that Aux Fan is running.
- Checked feed line to AC Stator: 14V.


- I suspect some sort of ground problem (just a theory), an intermittent ground problem may cause the AC Clutch to slip, causing overheat and destroys the Clutch Plate. Again, just a theory. Since I am not sure as to the cause of my AC Clutch slipping, I decided to add an additional ground cable.
* D/C battery cable.
* Loosen the Alternator (Upper bolt is 12-mm, Lower bolt is 14-mm) and wiggle it out of the way.
* I could not undo the factory screw holding the ground wire, so I added another ground wire (using round “eyelet” connector) as shown.
* I routed the new ground cable to the front of the van as shown.
* Zip-tie wire and make sure it is out of the way of the pulleys etc.


OdyStatorFix14.jpg


All is good, fingers crossed, hope I don’t have to do this again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
cnn, are you running any type of wierd settings on the A/C or is it just left on Auto most of the time? I'm just wondering outside the box what might be causing this. Don't really thing settings can have any impact, but stranger things have happened. Not at all happy to hear of your continued troubles with the stators, including the Air Parts stator. Could you try gapping it just slightly more this time?
 
121 - 140 of 389 Posts
Top