Honda Odyssey Forum banner

1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi!

I'm going to school for auto repair. In... 2 weeks we'll be starting the engines class.
Now, my own car runs alright, and I'm personally tight on money: so I'm planning on rebuilding a family friend's odyssey.

She has a 1995 odyssey that's got 290,000 miles on it; original engine, original tranny. I know, I know, not worth the effort: but I need to rebuild SOME engine, and it amuses me to keep an old car on the road! If the first engine lasted this long, maybe I can see this car to 400,000 miles plus?

Anyway.
The 2.2L 4 cylinder stock is only good for 130hp, and at high rpms at that!
While I'm at it... what are my options for something a little less underpowered?

Also, advice on transmissions? And any other common-to-go components? While the engine is out, there will never be a better time to change any other parts that my friend has the money for. A new transmission, of course not: maybe when we rebuild transmissions next Spring. But a cheap salvage with less than 290,000 miles on it would still be better :)


thanks!
-Bernard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
aahhh the f22 non-vtec. You could google f22 and you would find more info than you could possibly read in a month. Now to save you time and get to the short and sweet of it. f22's respond very well to the usual bolt-on's but you wont find a lot unless you go turbo. So faster for cheap would be: h23 prelude intake manifold but keep the f22 throttle body its the same size and then you don't have to move sensors to the fire wall. Any cheap ebay header will be an improvement over the stock manifold. And lastly I would find an h23/auto ecu from a prelude. It will have better fuel maps and different shift points and let you rev a little higher without killing the f-series. If you have a decent u-pull junkyard like lkq the prices are set and you can get every thing for about 100 bucks. Now there are other ways to go but they will of course involve more money. obd-1 f22 vtec swap would be nice, obd-II f23 vtec would be better, then there's always the h22 swap, if you were willing and able to fight the wiring harness a f20b or h23 vtec euro swap is really nice. Of course then you have a whole list of hybrid motors g22, g23 (which is just a f22/23 block with h22 head) f20b block with a f22 non vtec head and so on and so forth. But for the whole school project low budget build I would stick with a f22 if money allows buy a complete long block from craigslist or the junkyard and build that. Not doubting your abilities but when i took the auto tech program, out of 7 motors built by different teams only one actually ran the way it was supposed to run. All the chevy and ford v8's had dead cylinders or burned pistons inside of a month. Only my d16 lived, but i'd already been doing this a while and learned the hard lessons they hadn't. Also most of their engine issues were from reading magazines or the internet to much misinformation. listen to the instructor and keep it simple.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Hi,

Good points. My instructors seem very good.
I've only disassembled a practice engine (basic engines), and rebuilt it improperly with the missing and broken parts left from the students before me :)
On the one hand it ought to be very easy, just "plug and play," on the other hand I can't let a single metal shaving fall down a valve guide: I will be careful with my work.
I'm also building a ford v8; going with the performance engine of 1990 (that is to say, not really performance) and what modifications if any, very very basic (port the heads maybe...). Keeping it stock for durability.

I like KISS, much as my ego would like to tackle serious modifications.
No turbo in my near future: a plain stock h22 will still far surpass the f22 non-vtec! And that's all I need.
Finding a few options on craigslist of varying promise. My greatest fear would be that I pay $500 for an engine, open it up, and find that it needs serious machine work... doubling or tripling the cost.

Would even a vtec f22 work alright?

How tricksty is the obd-I to obd-II conversion?

And, at about how many miles would you draw the line?
One guy had the h22 AND a rebuild kit all for $450... but the block had 225,000 miles on it and was starting to burn oil. He intended to do the rebuild but never got around to it before he just sold the chassis for a decent price. BUT... I strongly fear opening it up, finding the cylinders .003" too wide, tapered and egg-shaped; needing a rebore and thereby throwing out the stock pistons that came with the kit in the first place, a loss all around.
...but 150,000, might still be good, not need machine work if it wasn't overheated or run dry?





aahhh the f22 non-vtec. You could google f22 and you would find more info than you could possibly read in a month. Now to save you time and get to the short and sweet of it. f22's respond very well to the usual bolt-on's but you wont find a lot unless you go turbo. So faster for cheap would be: h23 prelude intake manifold but keep the f22 throttle body its the same size and then you don't have to move sensors to the fire wall. Any cheap ebay header will be an improvement over the stock manifold. And lastly I would find an h23/auto ecu from a prelude. It will have better fuel maps and different shift points and let you rev a little higher without killing the f-series. If you have a decent u-pull junkyard like lkq the prices are set and you can get every thing for about 100 bucks. Now there are other ways to go but they will of course involve more money. obd-1 f22 vtec swap would be nice, obd-II f23 vtec would be better, then there's always the h22 swap, if you were willing and able to fight the wiring harness a f20b or h23 vtec euro swap is really nice. Of course then you have a whole list of hybrid motors g22, g23 (which is just a f22/23 block with h22 head) f20b block with a f22 non vtec head and so on and so forth. But for the whole school project low budget build I would stick with a f22 if money allows buy a complete long block from craigslist or the junkyard and build that. Not doubting your abilities but when i took the auto tech program, out of 7 motors built by different teams only one actually ran the way it was supposed to run. All the chevy and ford v8's had dead cylinders or burned pistons inside of a month. Only my d16 lived, but i'd already been doing this a while and learned the hard lessons they hadn't. Also most of their engine issues were from reading magazines or the internet to much misinformation. listen to the instructor and keep it simple.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
well to be honest I would avoid h22's for the simple fact that they have fiber metal cylinder walls. Pretty much any damage to the cylinder wall and the block is junk. Now before some one tries to correct me yes it could be fixed but the cost to do so will almost always be more than a replacement block. The 225k miles isn't a big deal for honda's but the fact that its burning oil would make me nervous. I personally am a big fan of single cam motors. Getting a f22 vtec motor would be a great step in the right direction. obd conversion isn't that big of a deal but an obd-1 f22 vtec isn't a very sought after motor (at least around here it isn't). I would go for the f22 vtec with a very mild rebuild: rings and bearings break the glaze with a dingle hone and leave the short block alone. While you have access to the equipment I would spend a lot of time with the head: rework all the valves, replace the valve guides, etc. You sound like you got a pretty good idea of what needs to be done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Alright, there's a local guy on craigslist who rolled his 1995 honda accord with 80,000 miles and is selling the car for $1000 (could/should probably talk him down?).

Might be a great candidate; f22 vtec (better than non vtec), pretty low mileage, and I'll have the engine, transmission, and any other accessory that I care to salvage, all being lower miles than the 290,000 on the minivan!

So: a 1995 f22 vtec, is that engine basically a drop in swap, plug & play? And, is the transmission the same too? Most of the accessories?

Versus non vtec, I anticipate at least swapping the computer-- don't know if there are any wiring harness mods in order as well

If you've done an engine swap, how long did it take you? I'm a noob, so I'll take your suggested time and at least double it when I budget for time with the lifts at school :)

I think at 80k, the only thing I'll do to it is a gasket kit; leave pistons, rings, and bearings alone! And I'm having fun with my own simpler&cheaper ford 302; for the honda I like the idea of KISS, the less rewiring, funky obd-ii conversion, and other kludges to manage as a beginner, the better. I'll have enough challenge just learning to swap the engines in a reasonable number of hours.


For our engine rebuild class (started last week) a friend brought in a honda 1.6L 4cyl that was given to him, with 225,000 miles; it was in fantastic shape, well, other than the fact that it was a manual and the kid who had driven that car didn't know how to use a clutch, wiping the thrust bearing, and the bearing cap housing and crankshaft along with it... but yeah, other than that crippling fault, the pistons were very clean, nary a lip on the cylinder bores. Good engines it would seem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
To swap it should take you like 3 hours :
)
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
Top