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Discussion Starter #1
We do 1/4 of our driving on the freeway and 3/4 of our driving around town.
According to my calculations, our new 2002 TW EX RES L is averaging between 14 to 15 miles to the gallon.
I was wondering what everybody else is getting ?
Loc
 

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I now have about 3000 mi. One interstate trip got 27 mpg. Last tank with mixed driving got 22.1 Yours seems low to me. My 99 EX got better as the mileage increased up to about 25000. The 02 EXL will hopefully do the same.
 

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I'm averaging around 20 mpg with a 50/50 mix city and freeway driving. Looking foward to a longer freeway trip over Thanksgiving to see what I get on the fwy.

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'02 RRP EX NAV
Mudguards,cargo tray,Weathertech mats, Bug deflector, lampguards, gold emblems,
17" TSW Spirit wheels with 235/55 Dunlop Sport A2 tires
More stuff on the way...
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by hotan1:
We do 1/4 of our driving on the freeway and 3/4 of our driving around town.
According to my calculations, our new 2002 TW EX RES L is averaging between 14 to 15 miles to the gallon.
I was wondering what everybody else is getting ?
Loc
</font>
Hi Hotan1,

I know that sounds low but I do have a question. Is most of the city driving short distance? That is, 5 miles or less? If so, your engine is never really warming up fully. As a result the computer is running a richer mixture on the fuel injection, kind of like running with the choke active on an older carburated vehicle. That being the case, 14 to 15 mpg probably isn't out of line although I can sure see why you'd be disappointed.

The lowest I've gotten so far on my '01 LX was around 16.5 and it was strictly city driving, most of which was 3 to 5 miles trips to the grocery store or simular errands. I expected the mileage to be down compared to my "normal" driving (I usually mix in 30 to 40% highway) so I was driving very conservatively. Even at that, I still got almost 2 mpg lower than the 18 the EPA estimates my Ody should get.

FWIW, one of my co-workers was complaining about the mileage his wife gets in their DC van with 3.3L V6. He said they're getting a slightly less than what you're complaining about. After talking to him, I found that 80%+ of her driving was errands of less than 5 miles from the house. Shopping, picking up the kids at school, etc. He also implied that while she's not a total lead foot, she probably doesn't drive as economically as she could. Do any of us for that matter?


He's not complaining quite as much any more!

FWIW,




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Drive Safe,
Steve R.
'01 SS LX
Cargo tray, leather steering wheel, mud guards, alarm, fog lights, transmission cooler, in-dash CD player, Kelton subwoofer, under seat storage tray.
 

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I think My New Ody is also eating a lot of gas. I have a 1/2 tank. With only 150 miles on it. But, My work is only 10 miles away from my house.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lawrence:
I think My New Ody is also eating a lot of gas. I have a 1/2 tank. With only 150 miles on it. But, My work is only 10 miles away from my house.</font>
Hi Lawrence,

Actually, that sounds about right. The last few tanks I've run though, the needle came off full at between 50 and 60 miles. Three quarter tank read just over 100 miles and half just over 150. By the time one quarter tank arrives, I've been around 230 to 240 miles. The averages I've been getting with this have been in the low 19's.

YMMV of course!




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Drive Safe,
Steve R.
'01 SS LX
Cargo tray, leather steering wheel, mud guards, alarm, fog lights, transmission cooler, in-dash CD player, Kelton subwoofer, under seat storage tray.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you intrepid 175 for the explanation. Most of our city driving is 10 miles or less, and reading from the other member's comments, I guess 14-15 mpg is average for the driving that we are doing.
Thanks for all your input.
Loc
 

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First of all, don't go my the gauge to determine half tank distance. The guage is not proportional for some reason. If you have to, go with the gas warning light - it comes on consistently when there is about 3.5 gallons left in the tank.

In any case, the Odyssey being about 4400-5000 lbs depending on what you are carrying is a lot of weight to accelerate. If you maintain a constant speed, it will do wonders for your gas mileage. I've repeatedly done the same 60 mile commute with different driving styles and found that with the cruise control set for most of the journey, I can get about 27-28 mpg compared to only about 24-25 driving normally - ie. accelerating and decelerating to keep up with traffic.
 

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For what it is worth- My first tank of gas 3/4 in town 1/4 highway I got 19.6 MPG. I did not think this was bad. I also noted that my gas light came on when I had almost 5 gallons of gas left. I put in 15.2 gallons. The book says it holds 20. I am only on my second tank. ( I just passed the 500 mile mark!)I hope it gets better but I am not unhappy. I figure my range should be about 350 miles normal routes. More on a long trip. I live about 16 rural miles from work. Also we have oxygenated fuel as of Nov. 1!

My 2001 t&c limited only got about 15!

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'02 RRP EXL-RES
'93 GRAND CHEROKEE LTD
'01 YAMAHA RAPTOR
'96 YAMAHA BANSHEE
'88 SUZUKI 500
 

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We're getting a bit more than 17.5 MPG on our first measured tank of gas. A bit disappointing so far but we have less than 500 miles on the van. Most of that driving has been short trips around town. I expect it to be better especially when we do more freeway driving.
=============================================
02 RP EX-L
Installed splash guards, wheel locks, RP door edge guards, cargo tray. More to come! Cleaned out garage (purging always feels great), van fits, hooray!

[This message has been edited by jarcher (edited 11-13-2001).]
 

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Hasn't anyone taken changes in ambient air temperature into consideration. Here's the formula:

The universal gas law is:

(1) PV = nRT.

Where:
P = Pressure
V = Volume
n = number of moles
R = Universal Gas Constant
T = absolute temperature. (0EF = 459.7ER)

Density is proportional to the number of moles per unit of volume. Dividing both sides of equation (1) by V gives us the equation:

(2) P = (n/V)RT

Equation (2) contains the expression 'n/V', which is the number of moles per unit volume. If we let n/V = cd, where 'c' is a constant of proportionality and 'd' stands for density, we can transform equation (2) into one which contains the variables 'd' for density, and 'T' for temperature. Substituting this in equation (2) yields:

(3) P = cdRT

Since we are interested in the density 'd' we can divide both sides by 'cRT' and get:

(4) P/(cRT)=d or d = (P/cR)/T

'R' and 'c' are both constants, and we reasoned above that the average pressure was essentially constant, so 'P' is also a constant for this equation. That makes the expression 'P/cR' a constant; let us replace the constant value 'P/cR' with a new constant 'K'. That leaves us with the equation:

(5) d = K/T.

This equation says that density is an inverse function of temperature; as the temperature goes up the density goes down and vice versa.

Since power requirements, and therefore gasoline consumption (measured in mileage - M), is proportional to density, then we may conclude that:

(6) M = K'/T

Using equation (6) we can compare the expected mileage change from two different temperatures (T1 to T2) simply by dividing equation (6) by itself for the two different temperatures.

M1 = K1/T1
(7)-----------==> M1/M2 = T2/T1
M2 = K1/T2

Notice that the constant of proportionality drops out, and we are left with a pure ratio. This ratio can be interpreted as stating that the percentage decrease in the mileage will match the percentage decrease in the temperature measured on an absolute temperature scale.

Remember, the T in this equation is the absolute temperature. If we use the Rankin scale which measure absolute zero at zero, we must add 459.7 to the temperature in Fahrenheit.

(8) (Degrees Rankine = Degrees Fahrenheit plus 459.7.)

Let us compare driving in 90EF weather to driving in -10EF weather.

(9) T1 = 90EF = 90 + 459.7 ER = 549.7ER

(10) T2 = -10EF = -10 + 459.7 ER = 449.7ER

(11) M1/M2 = T2/T1 = 449.7/549.7 = .818 or 81.8%
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by s2ktaxi:
First of all, don't go my the gauge to determine half tank distance. The guage is not proportional for some reason. If you have to, go with the gas warning light - it comes on consistently when there is about 3.5 gallons left in the tank.
</font>
I have already had 3,000 miles on my '02 ody and am pretty sure there should be much more than 3.5 gallons left when the warning light is on-- if the total capacity of the tank being 20 gallons. Since I've never rushed to gas stations when the waring light was on, I can't tell exactly how much was still there in the tank. However, my ody hasn't ever been fed with more than 15 gallons even after the warning light was on.

Sid
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Homer:
Hasn't anyone taken changes in ambient air temperature into consideration. Here's the formula:

The universal gas law is:

(1) PV = nRT.

Where:
P = Pressure
V = Volume
n = number of moles
R = Universal Gas Constant
T = absolute temperature. (0EF = 459.7ER)

Density is proportional to the number of moles per unit of volume. Dividing both sides of equation (1) by V gives us the equation:

(2) P = (n/V)RT

Equation (2) contains the expression 'n/V', which is the number of moles per unit volume. If we let n/V = cd, where 'c' is a constant of proportionality and 'd' stands for density, we can transform equation (2) into one which contains the variables 'd' for density, and 'T' for temperature. Substituting this in equation (2) yields:

(3) P = cdRT

Since we are interested in the density 'd' we can divide both sides by 'cRT' and get:

(4) P/(cRT)=d or d = (P/cR)/T

'R' and 'c' are both constants, and we reasoned above that the average pressure was essentially constant, so 'P' is also a constant for this equation. That makes the expression 'P/cR' a constant; let us replace the constant value 'P/cR' with a new constant 'K'. That leaves us with the equation:

(5) d = K/T.

This equation says that density is an inverse function of temperature; as the temperature goes up the density goes down and vice versa.

Since power requirements, and therefore gasoline consumption (measured in mileage - M), is proportional to density, then we may conclude that:

(6) M = K'/T

Using equation (6) we can compare the expected mileage change from two different temperatures (T1 to T2) simply by dividing equation (6) by itself for the two different temperatures.

M1 = K1/T1
(7)-----------==> M1/M2 = T2/T1
M2 = K1/T2

Notice that the constant of proportionality drops out, and we are left with a pure ratio. This ratio can be interpreted as stating that the percentage decrease in the mileage will match the percentage decrease in the temperature measured on an absolute temperature scale.

Remember, the T in this equation is the absolute temperature. If we use the Rankin scale which measure absolute zero at zero, we must add 459.7 to the temperature in Fahrenheit.

(8) (Degrees Rankine = Degrees Fahrenheit plus 459.7.)

Let us compare driving in 90EF weather to driving in -10EF weather.

(9) T1 = 90EF = 90 + 459.7 ER = 549.7ER

(10) T2 = -10EF = -10 + 459.7 ER = 449.7ER

(11) M1/M2 = T2/T1 = 449.7/549.7 = .818 or 81.8%

</font>

So,er, HOMER... I was just thinking the very same thing..But, what's the bottom line, here.
 

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I think Homer's conclusion is that at 90 degrees F you will only get about 80% of the miles per gallon that you would get at -10 degrees F, all other things being equal (which they generally aren't, but can be considered equal for the purposes of an approximation. So if you're getting 20 mpg at 90 degrees F, then you would get 25 mpg at -10 degrees F.

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Richard
2002 Granite Green EX-L
Splash Guards, Cargo Tray, Weathertech Mats
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by s2ktaxi:
First of all, don't go my the gauge to determine half tank distance. The guage is not proportional for some reason. If you have to, go with the gas warning light - it comes on consistently when there is about 3.5 gallons left in the tank.

</font>
I agree, you can't rely on mileage at a given point on the guage to determine what your precise MPG will be. What you can do, after you become familiar with the vehicle, is see what kind of "trend" you're developing as far as your mileage goes. The 150 mile point at a half tank is very common for me most of the time. If I get a little farther by the half way point then I know I'm doing a little better than average and vice-versa if I don't make 150 by the time the guage hits the half way point.

As for the low fuel warning light. Mine has proven to be one of the more inconsistant I've had on any vehicle I've owned. I've put anywhere from 14.5 to 15.2 gallons in the tank after the light comes on. Having said that, the low fuel light on my Ody works differently from any others I've had. In all of my previous vehicles I've owned, the light will start to glow and increase in brightness as the tank gets lower. The light would come on and go off depending on whether I was going up hill or down, etc. With my Ody, when the light comes on, "it comes on!" and stays that way. Once it's on, it doesn't go off again. I think the tank gets close and fuel sloshing switches the light on and that's it. I believe that's why I've seen such a variation in the amount of fuel that tank holds after the light is active.

FWIW,



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Drive Safe,
Steve R.
'01 SS LX
Cargo tray, leather steering wheel, mud guards, alarm, fog lights, transmission cooler, in-dash CD player, Kelton subwoofer, under seat storage tray.
 

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Great stuff, Homer, but in all the years I have kept track of EVERY gallon of gas I have used and the related mileage figures, my best mileages have ALWAYS been seen in the summer. My worst tank mileage figures are always when the weather is cold.

Jerry O.

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2001 Odyssey GG LX
 

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Gas Milage, I thought that the colder air going in the engine. The better gas ratio. of 14 to 1. I was trained as former Toyota and Honda Tech. Well I guess The engine doesn't have the time to reach operating temperature. For the type of driving I'm doing. Only 10 miles or less. bye.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Homer:
Hasn't anyone taken changes in ambient air temperature into consideration. Here's the formula:...</font>
Other factors:<ul>[*]Seasonal and daily differences in humidity[*]Coefficient of friction between air and paint affected by temperature[*]Temperature of gas as measure coming out of an underground tank not the same as air temperature[*]The Cubs always choke in August[/list]

Regards,

------------------
Maugham

"I plan to live forever. So far, so good"
'02 RP EXL
'85 Prelude
'01 Ninja folding aluminum scooter
'00 New Balance Model 658 Shoes w/ Green Grass stains and '01 White Laces w/ Frayed Tips <font color=pink><font size=-5>

[This message has been edited by Maugham (edited 11-13-2001).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lawrence:
Gas Milage, I thought that the colder air going in the engine. The better gas ratio. of 14 to 1. I was trained as former Toyota and Honda Tech. Well I guess The engine doesn't have the time to reach operating temperature. For the type of driving I'm doing. Only 10 miles or less. bye. </font>
14:1 fuel/air ratios are genearlly considered to be optimum for overall performance and drivability. It may not be for emissions and/or fuel economy. Either way, with a computer controlled fuel injection system, the computer will modify the amount of fuel delivered based on a number of parameters measured with various sensors. These include, but are probably not limited to, engine temp, outside air temp, engine rpm, throttle position, intake manifold pressure, outside air pressure, oxygen content remaining in the exhaust gasses, etc. In theory, I would think that mileage should stay relatively consistant regardless of the time of year but that doesn't necessarily apply.

The thing about colder air in the winter time is that it is more dense than the hotter air we drive in during the summer. The more dense the air, the more fuel is required to maintain a proper mixture. This is one factor in why we may see a reduction in fuel economy during that time of year. Also, with the increased air density and associated fuel flow, the engines performs better (something I enjoy!) and it wouldn't surprise me if we don't push the throttle down a little further, taking advantage of that added punch. If we drive in an appropriately economical fashion, I don't see why we should see any significant decrease in fuel economy regardless of the time of year but obviously it doesn't work out that way all the time.

FWIW,



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Drive Safe,
Steve R.
'01 SS LX
Cargo tray, leather steering wheel, mud guards, alarm, fog lights, transmission cooler, in-dash CD player, Kelton subwoofer, under seat storage tray.
 
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