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Here is a question for everyone out there and since the same exact thing is happening to mine I'm interested in replies. What is causing the front 3 cylinders to stop getting fuel. Im not buying the zero compression unless something really catastrophic like a giant hole in the piston or a valve stuck open even with a burnt valve or broken rings it will build some compression just not as much . Lets not forget that all 3 of the front cylinders are not getting fuel. Mine is building compression on all 3 cylinders but is not getting the pulse to allow fuel into the cylinders. and Honda told me that after so many misfires it shuts off the fuel to the entire front bank. And why would it matter how many misfires are happening would it shut the fuel off to cylinders 4 5 6.I'm still quite confused about this. And would really like to know if this has happened to anyone else and what the fix was.
 

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Here is a question for everyone out there and since the same exact thing is happening to mine I'm interested in replies. What is causing the front 3 cylinders to stop getting fuel. Im not buying the zero compression unless something really catastrophic like a giant hole in the piston or a valve stuck open even with a burnt valve or broken rings it will build some compression just not as much . Lets not forget that all 3 of the front cylinders are not getting fuel. Mine is building compression on all 3 cylinders but is not getting the pulse to allow fuel into the cylinders. and Honda told me that after so many misfires it shuts off the fuel to the entire front bank. And why would it matter how many misfires are happening would it shut the fuel off to cylinders 4 5 6.I'm still quite confused about this. And would really like to know if this has happened to anyone else and what the fix was.
Not sure how it's the exact same thing if you have good compression in yours.
 

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Okay I am having the exact same issue with my 07 but I am much farther along in my diagnosis.And still have no idea what is wrong. So far I have replaced 1 coil pack on number 4 cylinder changed all 3 spark plugs on the front bank. Verified that all 3 cylinders 4 5 6 are getting spark. We have ohmed out the fuel injector wires to the ecm and all are good. What is happening with mine is that the fuel injectors are not getting the signal to pulse after the engine has ran for about 1 minute. I have taken it to the local Honda stealership here in Columbia Mo to repair and they said it needed a valve adjustment. and charged me $90 to replace the same 3 spark plugs again along with other stuff they needed to try. Anyway we brought it home and I checked the valves and made sure they were all within tolerance and they were very close but now for sure where they are supposed to be. Also checked the compression on the front 3 cylinders 4 was 220psi 5 was 240psi and 6 was 238psi. sounds high to me but all are within 10% of each other. I thought it might be the ecm but everyone I have talked to has said that would be extremely unusual as the Honda ecms are very robust and don't usually give any problems. Anyway the dealership is telling me now that #4 is continually misfiring and telling the injectors to stop working on the front bank since the misfire count is so high for 1 cylinder. I'm not buying that. This ody has close to 200k on it now and has been a good vehicle until this happened. But now I have about had it with it. I'm tired of throwing money at it. If there is anyone else out there that has had this issue and found a solution Please share what it took to fix.
You didn't get a reply here because you're doing what is called thread-jacking where you jump into a thread with something off topic and not helpful to the original poster who started the thread. If you have a specific issue you want help with you should really start your own thread so the replies to you don't get lost in replies to the OP of this thread. Just because you also have misfires doesn't mean it is going to be the same diagnosis as the OP will end up having. That said, I find it a little odd that you went to the trouble to check the valve lash but did it without having any idea what the lash should be. How do you know they were good? That's a lot of tear down to check something with nothing to check it against. If you're going to do this stuff you need some service info...Chiltons, Haynes, or even a factory service manual. There are also alldataDIY.com subscriptions you can buy for $20 for a year, etc.

To answer your question, though, about why the PCM would stop firing injectors on a misfire...The PCM will shut down injectors on a cylinder if it thinks the misfire will damage the converter. This is done to protect the catalytic converter from damage caused by sending raw, unburned fuel through the exhaust.
 

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Oh sorry I wasn't trying to threadjack anyone it was just I am having the exact same issue short of the no compression
apologies to all. New to the forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Makes sense for the pcm to stop firing the Injectors. That probably explains why I was getting compression on cylinders 5 and 6 upon start up and then after idling a bit, the front bank stops firing. The engine sounds smoother when the front bank cylinders are all off. The mechanic I took it to unfortunately can’t get to it until Tuesday. He’s well known and has quite a bit of jobs lined up.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Not sure if this tid bit of info makes a difference but the engine sounds way rougher when the air conditioning is on. Most likely because there’s more demand on the engine with the extra components running.
 

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Here is a question for everyone out there and since the same exact thing is happening to mine I'm interested in replies. What is causing the front 3 cylinders to stop getting fuel. Im not buying the zero compression unless something really catastrophic like a giant hole in the piston or a valve stuck open even with a burnt valve or broken rings it will build some compression just not as much . Lets not forget that all 3 of the front cylinders are not getting fuel. Mine is building compression on all 3 cylinders but is not getting the pulse to allow fuel into the cylinders. and Honda told me that after so many misfires it shuts off the fuel to the entire front bank. And why would it matter how many misfires are happening would it shut the fuel off to cylinders 4 5 6.I'm still quite confused about this. And would really like to know if this has happened to anyone else and what the fix was.
I am not trying to be a SA, but this is an '06, a.k.a. a 14-year-old vehicle, and at or near the point Honda is no longer required to carry parts for it. Having forgotten most everything I learned in the machine shop, even running a CNC machine, I had to let my 46-year-old Volvo go because I could not find much less 'make' parts for it anymore, Volvo had discontinued parts for it over 20 years prior to it ever reaching that 46-year mark! Recommend getting a much later model, I just traded my 2010 Odyssey for a new 2020. It also ONLY had something over 90,000 miles on it, original timing belt, but it was due for about $2K worth of work to maintain its 'like new' performance. BTW, I read by these posts that constantly refer to that VCM system needing to be 'shut down' or muzzled in some way. I ran that VCM with not the first issue, implementing the cruise control at every opportunity, and never experienced the first stutter. There is one issue I know from experience that is problematic with nearly any of these fuel injection, variable timing, vehicles. I call it 'vehicle arterial disease.' The contaminating and eventual clogging of very close tolerances in all areas of the combustion process, from fuel injectors to valves and everything in-between. I used and use Lucas Fuel Treatment exclusively in my Hondas. My Volvo was an early 'fuel injector' rig and I used the Chevron Techron fuel treatment in that boy and only replaced one injector over its entire 46 years! A friend of my Son had some 'running issues' with his late model vehicle of some brand, and my son recommended he try the Techron treatment. His friend later said my son was some kind of "miracle worker" his issue was solved in 'one' treatment! I absolutely knew the stuff worked in my Volvo and for people attempting to buy the cheapest gas available, or even gas adequately charged with "cleaners," it is the ONLY way to stay on the road! I changed to Lucas primarily due to their rep and you can buy the stuff by the gallon. I started with only treating every other tank fill, but since only 4 oz per 20 gal is required, I usually put it in every tank fill! YMMV - DISCLAIMER:) I don't work for or have stock in either of those products! All that said, if anybody has lost compression in one or more cylinders, I'm thinking, at a minimum you are headed for a 'top engine' repair and were it mine I'd be going full motor overhaul. Again, YMMV;)
 

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I am not trying to be a SA, but this is an '06, a.k.a. a 14-year-old vehicle, and at or near the point Honda is no longer required to carry parts for it. Having forgotten most everything I learned in the machine shop, even running a CNC machine, I had to let my 46-year-old Volvo go because I could not find much less 'make' parts for it anymore, Volvo had discontinued parts for it over 20 years prior to it ever reaching that 46-year mark! Recommend getting a much later model, I just traded my 2010 Odyssey for a new 2020. It also ONLY had something over 90,000 miles on it, original timing belt, but it was due for about $2K worth of work to maintain its 'like new' performance. BTW, I read by these posts that constantly refer to that VCM system needing to be 'shut down' or muzzled in some way. I ran that VCM with not the first issue, implementing the cruise control at every opportunity, and never experienced the first stutter. There is one issue I know from experience that is problematic with nearly any of these fuel injection, variable timing, vehicles. I call it 'vehicle arterial disease.' The contaminating and eventual clogging of very close tolerances in all areas of the combustion process, from fuel injectors to valves and everything in-between. I used and use Lucas Fuel Treatment exclusively in my Hondas. My Volvo was an early 'fuel injector' rig and I used the Chevron Techron fuel treatment in that boy and only replaced one injector over its entire 46 years! A friend of my Son had some 'running issues' with his late model vehicle of some brand, and my son recommended he try the Techron treatment. His friend later said my son was some kind of "miracle worker" his issue was solved in 'one' treatment! I absolutely knew the stuff worked in my Volvo and for people attempting to buy the cheapest gas available, or even gas adequately charged with "cleaners," it is the ONLY way to stay on the road! I changed to Lucas primarily due to their rep and you can buy the stuff by the gallon. I started with only treating every other tank fill, but since only 4 oz per 20 gal is required, I usually put it in every tank fill! YMMV - DISCLAIMER:) I don't work for or have stock in either of those products! All that said, if anybody has lost compression in one or more cylinders, I'm thinking, at a minimum you are headed for a 'top engine' repair and were it mine I'd be going full motor overhaul. Again, YMMV;)
Just because you didn't experience an issue with VCM doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's like a TSB. Just because a vehicle manufacturer issues a TSB on a vehicle, doesn't mean every vehicle will experience that particular issue. That doesn't mean the issue isn't an issue just because it doesn't happen to you. If you disable VCM you 100% will not have an issue. If you don't disable the VCM you might experience an issue, though I can't offer a percentage there. Over the last 5-6 years or so that the VCM defeat devices have been out, I've not seen a single report of someone with one installed saying they had to have their rings replaced.

Don't write something off just because it didn't happen to you....yet.
 

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I read some time ago, that this engine is prone to require valve adjustment for this misfiring code,. The explanation was that contrary to the usual case, instead of loosing, tends to tight them up leaving the valves opened. This may explain tha lack of compression. So you may require a valve adjustment. I saw a good profesional video on you tube about the issue, looking for the misfiring issue (I also have a 2006 EX-L, and go light on it, since I'm waiting for the next service request to do timing belt, miscellaneous, and valve check).
 

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choste11 sent me a PM. Here's my reply to him. Just sharing so all of you can see what my take on it is.

"First of all, I wouldn't place too much blame on the fact that you had it on cruise control when going up a hill... that's a condition that every vehicle should be able to handle and downshifting is also a regular occurrence of course. If it didn't happen then, it likely would have at some other point.

It does sound like something bad happened at that point though and the fact that you have no compression on #4, is not a good sign. My guess would be rings, not valves. Rings on these VCM engines is a far more common failure and is the main culprit for misfires / oil consumption. Here's what happens typically... while cruising along at a constant speed, the VCM system activates and shuts down cylinders. The valves remain closed and the spark is disabled...Honda touts this as a way to create a pneumatic "spring" and not lose a lot of energy. However, without the usual combustion pressures, the rings tend to bypass a lot more oil. So during the time that the VCM is active, oil is accumulating in the inactive cylinders. When VCM activates again, air and fuel are introduced and the cylinders fire again, however you're now dealing with an air/fue/oil mix. The oil effectively changes the octane rating of the mixture and causes it to detonate when it's not supposed to. This detonation at the wrong time, puts severe stress on your engine components, most notably, the rings, and it causes catastrophic failure of rings, which is why Honda had to foot the bill for so many ring jobs in it's class action lawsuit.

Honda claims they now use better rings, (I call bullshit), but what they really did to "fix" the issue is to have the PCM engage all the cylinders from time to time to burn off the oil before too much of it accumulated to cause detonation. Not really a good fix for all of VCM's ills, in my opinion.

Based on what your'e describing, I'd say that is likely what happened. The fact that you have no compression in #4 is a really bad thing. Without compression, the cylinder won't fire at all and it's likely the reason for the rough running. You need to have your rings inspected, preferably at a honda dealer. If your raise enough shit about VCM, even though the extended warranty is over, many have been able to get Honda to still pay for some and sometimes all of the cost for replacing them. If you say you didn't know about this massive problem these vehicles had before this happened and the vehicle only has 90K on it, and so on.... chances are they will cover at least some of the repair.

Your goal right now is to get the vehicle running properly again. The VCMuzzler won't solve your issue as it only prevents VCM from activating. You're having cylinder misfire problems that have to be fixed. once you have that fixed, absolutely put a VCMuzzler on it and the vehicle will last a long time.

I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, sorry about that. Let me know how you make out."
Piston rings do not loose all compression. If it has no compression then it’s probably a timing belt that slipped and now the valve timing is off. Valve open when the piston is coming up. Then it may have bent a valve. You do a dry then wet compression check to determine rings vs valves
 

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I read some time ago, that this engine is prone to require valve adjustment for this misfiring code,. The explanation was that contrary to the usual case, instead of loosing, tends to tight them up leaving the valves opened. This may explain tha lack of compression. So you may require a valve adjustment. I saw a good profesional video on you tube about the issue, looking for the misfiring issue (I also have a 2006 EX-L, and go light on it, since I'm waiting for the next service request to do timing belt, miscellaneous, and valve check).
He reported that all of the sudden the engine lost power and check engine light started flashing. A need for valve adjustment doesn’t happened all of the sudden when going 66mph with the cruise on and climbing a hill.
sounds like maybe a timing belt slipped. Maybe caused a valve to get hit.
hopefully he will report back. My 05 didn’t have the variable valve garbage and had 205k on it when I was stupid and sold it.
bought another 05 with 210k that was leaking at the water pump. Ordered the complete kit from RockAuto and now have a van again. $550 for the van been driving it for 10 months
 

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Discussion Starter #53
I got tired of waiting for my mechanic to take a look so I took it to the Honda dealership. Not good news. Just like my mechanic, they say it's internal failure and think it's burnt valves. They then gave me an option on a very high mileage motor that they will put in for 5K (no thanks) or repair. The repair they quoted $2500-$3000 canadian dollars. I emailed Honda Canada pleading my case so will see what they say. Here's what I wrote them: (note that 141K eqates to 88K miles).

Good afternoon,

I am an owner of a 2006 Honda Odyssey EX-L with the VCM. The van only has 141K and it was driving perfectly until this latest incident. I was on the highway going up a steady incline on cruise control when the vehicle downshifted and after that the check engine light came on and started blinking with power loss to the engine. All the ignition coils and spark plugs were replaced but the problem was still there. The car is currently at Regina Honda and there is no compression with cylinder# 4. They think it's a burnt valve. I was quoted $2500-$3000 to fix this issue. This should not have happened as I thought Honda's are supposed to be reliable. Especially one with only 141K and full synthetic oil used.

After speaking to the service manager, they said to contact you. Is there something Honda Canada can assist with? Is there some sort of good will that Honda Canada can provide? The vehicle was purchased from Honda Canada and a lot of maintenance was performed there as well. I have owned many Honda's and this is a huge disappointment for me. After doing some more research, there is a class action lawsuit for these 3.5L engines with the VCM. See links below:






Please provide any assistance in this repair as this should not have happened to any vehicle, let alone a well maintained Honda. Vehicle is currently at Regina Honda as we await your response.

Warmest Regards
 

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As said numerous times a burnt valve doesn't happen suddenly. It likely skipped time and bent a valve. I'd almost guarantee it needs a valve job and a timing belt.
 

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I got tired of waiting for my mechanic to take a look so I took it to the Honda dealership. Not good news. Just like my mechanic, they say it's internal failure and think it's burnt valves. They then gave me an option on a very high mileage motor that they will put in for 5K (no thanks) or repair. The repair they quoted $2500-$3000 canadian dollars. I emailed Honda Canada pleading my case so will see what they say. Here's what I wrote them: (note that 141K eqates to 88K miles).

Good afternoon,

I am an owner of a 2006 Honda Odyssey EX-L with the VCM. The van only has 141K and it was driving perfectly until this latest incident. I was on the highway going up a steady incline on cruise control when the vehicle downshifted and after that the check engine light came on and started blinking with power loss to the engine. All the ignition coils and spark plugs were replaced but the problem was still there. The car is currently at Regina Honda and there is no compression with cylinder# 4. They think it's a burnt valve. I was quoted $2500-$3000 to fix this issue. This should not have happened as I thought Honda's are supposed to be reliable. Especially one with only 141K and full synthetic oil used.

After speaking to the service manager, they said to contact you. Is there something Honda Canada can assist with? Is there some sort of good will that Honda Canada can provide? The vehicle was purchased from Honda Canada and a lot of maintenance was performed there as well. I have owned many Honda's and this is a huge disappointment for me. After doing some more research, there is a class action lawsuit for these 3.5L engines with the VCM. See links below:






Please provide any assistance in this repair as this should not have happened to any vehicle, let alone a well maintained Honda. Vehicle is currently at Regina Honda as we await your response.

Warmest Regards
Honda Service will be the most expensive for just about anything! Get a second quote if you haven’t already from a import car repair shop! Sorry this happened to you!
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Honda Canada isn't going to help out. They mentioned that the car is our of warranty and pretty much too bad so sad. I have it at an independent shop. I should hear something today about it. They also don't think it's a burnt valve.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
On another note, if I require a motor replacement, can I replace with a non VCM motor from an EX model? Will it be a direct swap? Any difference in the wiring?
 

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On another note, if I require a motor replacement, can I replace with a non VCM motor from an EX model? Will it be a direct swap? Any difference in the wiring?
I think doing the swap is theoretically possible (it wouldn't be direct), but you're better off just getting a VCM engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
I heard back from the independent shop and yes indeed it is a burnt valve like my mechanic originally said. I should have just left it with him instead of going to Honda and this independent shop as now I'm out a whack load of money/time and I'm no further ahead. It's going back to my mechanic.
 

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Sorry we wasted your time and led you astray down this path. It is very surprising that you have a burnt valve, but sounds like you now have verification that that is indeed the issue.
 
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