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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I decided to register after reading the threads talking about ABS. I can't find a post that seems to match this specific combo of codes and our symptoms.

From a cold start no codes are on. After driving about 10 minutes 40 - 50 miles an hour on a bendy but smooth road near our house, the VSA and triangle exclamation light next to it come on and stay on. It did this twice at about the same amount of driving, no apparent correlation to any big bumps or anything. I bought an Innova OBDII scanner and it reads the two codes in the title:

83-1 Permanent - ECM/PCM Relation Failure
104-1 Permanent - Sensor Cluster Failure

I also have a check engine light that came on at the same time but seems unrelated (P0304) and discovered this thing has been using oil. We've always just taken it to a dealer or a quick oil change and this is the first time in a while that I checked the oil myself - about 2 quarts low. I had no idea about the class action until I started looking into this. My guess is that my car developed this problem a little late so we missed the window for free repair. We're at about 160k miles. Hopefully it's just a fouled plug and I can start feeding it oil and keep driving it.

Thanks for any help
 

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Or might be time to Muzzle it. Feeding it oil will just prolong the issue. (more than just a fouled plug)
 

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Welcome to this forum. Definitely muzzle your VCM. Doing this will likely fix your excessive oil consumption issue and may prevent major engine damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
What do yo mean by muzzle the VCM? Is there some way to disable it?

And I'm guessing that has nothing to do with the VSA / ABS issue, right?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So I found a site selling a kit, I guess that's what you mean by VCM muzzle?

 

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Discussion Starter #6
Another update, just picked up a set of plugs and one of the parts guys said the ABS codes might mean my computer is going bad. Apparently there's a harness that over heats. Sound familiar to anyone here?
 

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2005 Honda Odyssey... for towing, camping, & fetching parts for the German cars. :-/
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Seconding the muzzle comments. I bought ours from a friend who got it new & was forthright about the oil use (easily a quart of oil per tank of gas). New PCV & VC Muzzler II took that down to a quart every 2000-3000 miles. I bought the VCM Tuner; it's fine, but required seasonal adjustment (or when towing). Switch to the improved version & NEVER have to adjust it. Sorry, but I'm no help with those codes you're chasing.

155426
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Seconding the muzzle comments. I bought ours from a friend who got it new & was forthright about the oil use (easily a quart of oil per tank of gas). New PCV & VC Muzzler II took that down to a quart every 2000-3000 miles. I bought the VCM Tuner; it's fine, but required seasonal adjustment (or when towing). Switch to the improved version & NEVER have to adjust it. Sorry, but I'm no help with those codes you're chasing.

View attachment 155426
So is the tuner something that goes with the muzzler? Do you need both?
 

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Purchase the VCMTunerII. There are several different devices that will "muzzle" the VCM. The term comes from the original device the inventor called the "VCMuzzler." The VCMTunerII will do what you need. So, replace the plugs and install the VCMTunerII as soon as you can.
 

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As for the ABS codes, the code 83 can be caused by the code in the PCM (P0304). You'll need to get that issue fixed first.

The code 104 can be caused by a wrong sized tire, a tire worn significantly more than another, air pressure, or wheel alignment. Also can be caused by modified suspension.

I'd get your misfire issue addressed first, check tire condition and alignment and then troubleshoot further from there.
 

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If you just replace the plugs and don't install a VCM defeating device your codes WILL return. They could still return even with the device installed but most of the time I've seen this happen to people defeating the VCM has prevented the fouling from recurring.
 

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Goonie,

since you are new here you may not be aware of the expertise of the legendary John Clark on this forum. Do what he suggests. Muzzling the VCM is a simple and inexpensive part install that fools the engine computer to think the engine is not at operating temperature which prevents the VCM function was operating. It’s important to understand that the engine temperature is not actually affected at all. VCM causes piston ring wear and failure, excessive oil consumption, misfires, and failed engine mounts. You really want to disable this.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
As for the ABS codes, the code 83 can be caused by the code in the PCM (P0304). You'll need to get that issue fixed first.

The code 104 can be caused by a wrong sized tire, a tire worn significantly more than another, air pressure, or wheel alignment. Also can be caused by modified suspension.

I'd get your misfire issue addressed first, check tire condition and alignment and then troubleshoot further from there.
So I figured out only one plug was fouled which the guy at Advanced Auto and my brother suggested was the coil pack. I replaced the coil pack, cleaned up the plug a bit and reinstalled and reset the codes with my ODB II reader. On a 15 - 20 minute test drive no codes returned and it seemed to be running fine, so I think you were right about the code 83 possibly being caused by the misfire (code 0304). The ABS codes (and the VSA light) popped up consistently on two previous nearly identical test drives, so hopefully I'm lucky and the coil pack addresses all the codes but I'm not going to be surprised if the VSA light comes back. If 104 comes back, I'll be sure to have my alignment checked.

I do realize the coil pack does not address the oil consumption and I think all of you are right that I need to bypass the VCM to prevent further problems. I already bought a full set of plugs but I figured it was a waste of time and parts to install the whole set before installing a VCMTUNER II. The back three look like a pain!

Thank you all for the help
 

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Why did you replace the coil pack for a fouled plug? The Advance Auto guy saw you coming. I would put the original coil pack back in it and either return the new one or keep it as a spare in case one does actually fail. Most likely the new one you got is low quality anyway.

You likely have fouled plugs on cylinders 1-3, as well. VCM disables cylinders 1-4. I would buy a full set of plugs and a VCMTunerII. Remove and return (if possible) that new coil.
 

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Welcome to this forum. Definitely muzzle your VCM. Doing this will likely fix your excessive oil consumption issue and may prevent major engine damage.
So far in reading all ive seen mentioned was that the VCM can cause some piston rotation and that might align the oil rings which is what causes some oil to enter the combustion chamber which can foul the plugs. Also some additional vibration that can wear the engine mounts out earlier. Beyond that, what major engine damage are you referring to?
 

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It's all over this forum everywhere and it's NOT the ring gaps lining up. That was Honda's excuse in the law suit so they didn't have to admit VCM is a failed system. The same thing happens on GM V8 engines with their cylinder pause system except that it's a push rod engine instead of an overhead cam engine and it fouls the plugs and fails the lifters.

Fouled plugs, dirty/stuck piston rings, cylinder wall scoring, damaged catalytic converters, worn active motor mounts ($700+ each to replace, just for the part,) etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Why did you replace the coil pack for a fouled plug?
The plug on the left is the plug that was on the left, front of the engine. I'm pretty sure it's from cylinder 4, the other two are probably 5 and 6. I showed my brother this and he thought all I needed to do was clean the plug up. My brother and the advanced auto guy said the same thing, if only one plug is gummed up it's a coil pack.

I didn't buy the coil pack from Advanced Auto, I bought that from the Honda dealership. I paid a premium, $100 for one coil pack, but I didn't want to order on eBay and wait to get it fixed.

I've ran it twice since and the check engine and VSA codes have still not returned. I'm fairly certain the coil pack was what caused the misfire codes and probably the VSA codes too.

I do not think the coil pack was causing the oil consumption. That, I think, is the VCM and I ordered the VCMTUNER II to address that to the extent that it can be at 160k miles.
 

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That theory about a coil pack being the cause of a gummed up plug is incorrect, especially in a VCM Honda where cylinder 4 is part of the VCM system. I guarantee there's nothing wrong with your coil pack.

Did you remove the back three plugs and look at them? Cylinders 5 & 6 are not usually problems. Just 1-4.
 

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It's all over this forum everywhere and it's NOT the ring gaps lining up. That was Honda's excuse in the law suit so they didn't have to admit VCM is a failed system. The same thing happens on GM V8 engines with their cylinder pause system except that it's a push rod engine instead of an overhead cam engine and it fouls the plugs and fails the lifters.

Fouled plugs, dirty/stuck piston rings, cylinder wall scoring, damaged catalytic converters, worn active motor mounts ($700+ each to replace, just for the part,) etc.
so it’s mainly just an oil burn situation that can dirty up the combustion chamber from the sound of it. I might stick a bore scope in there and see how my 215k engine looks.

I’m just referring to catastrophic mechanical issues. Damaged cats and fouled plugs on an old car are a normal thing to me. Most states you wouldn’t have to fix the cats anyway. So if it’s not the ring gaps then how is this massive amount of oil getting in initially? Something with the valve guides?

If you do run into anyone paying 700 for an individual engine mount be sure to smack them for me. I see them everywhere for like a 100 bucks or less which is a normal price for a big mount.
 

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so it’s mainly just an oil burn situation that can dirty up the combustion chamber from the sound of it. I might stick a bore scope in there and see how my 215k engine looks.

I’m just referring to catastrophic mechanical issues. Damaged cats and fouled plugs on an old car are a normal thing to me. Most states you wouldn’t have to fix the cats anyway. So if it’s not the ring gaps then how is this massive amount of oil getting in initially? Something with the valve guides?

If you do run into anyone paying 700 for an individual engine mount be sure to smack them for me. I see them everywhere for like a 100 bucks or less which is a normal price for a big mount.
If you think you know better than 4-5 years of aggregated knowledge here and want to reinvent the wheel go right ahead. This has been discussed here for years now. Read the FAQ below. Make your own decision. You go right ahead and replace your mount with a $100 aftermarket. You'll want to smack yourself as I guarantee you'll be doing it again within a year. Again, everyone here knows that because it's been reported here too many times to count.

 
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