[Dudersup]

Hey guys, I have a 2010 Oddyssey that had the common misfire problem, but was out of warranty. We paid out if pocket to have a piston re-ring completed. About 3 months later the engine shuts off randomly sitting idle in a parking lot. I sent it back to the same dealer, and they say the timing belt broke. The van has 113k miles. Timing belt was replaced at about 105k by someone else.

The dealer is not wanting to take any responsibility for what happened. I'm just now discovering they replaced the water pump when they did the ring job essentially replacing the 1 year old pump that was already there. I don't remember the pump being part of the scope of work, but they say it was. Why would they do the pump and not the timing belt? Either way they would have had to remove the belt to do the work.

They did a diagnostic and determined they "don't know" what caused the belt to break other than it was a "cheap aftermarket belt". It's a Mitsuboshi belt, which I've been told is actually the same belt and who makes the Honda oem belt. I now have bent valves and a van that doesn't turn on. Not really getting anything from the dealer in terms of a solution so far.

What would you do if you were me?

 

[hpark21]

That sounds "dubious" at best though. They took a part the whole part yet they are washing their hands of the responsibility? Also, if they felt the belt was "cheap aftermarket belt", then why didn't they just tell you that and charge you $20 that costs to replace with new belt while belt was off the van?

 

[Dudersup]

That sounds "dubious" at best though. They took a part the whole part yet they are washing their hands of the responsibility? Also, if they felt the belt was "cheap aftermarket belt", then why didn't they just tell you that and charge you $20 that costs to replace with new belt while belt was off the van?

Thanks for the response. I agree. I have made that point and asked that question and not gotten anywhere with them.

 

[davedrivesody]

Also, if they felt the belt was "cheap aftermarket belt", then why didn't they just tell you that and charge you $20 that costs to replace with new belt while belt was off the van?

Good point. But the aftermarket belt was identified after it broke, not during the ring job.

OP, I don't think you could successfully nail their hide to the wall for not replacing the timing belt. If you were to knock on enough doors at the dealer, you might get some goodwill toward the needed engine repair. But it would likely still cost more than an independent shop would charge.

I would tow the van to the shop that replaced the timing belt and have them repair the engine. (Use a timing belt from Honda. If the tensioner, etc. was not replaced during the last TB job, get a complete Aisin TB kit from RockAuto and bring it to them. Aisin is Honda OEM.)

Also, get a VCM (Variable Cylinder Management) defeat device. VCM is why the engine needed a ring job in the first place.

 

[Dudersup]

Good point. But the aftermarket belt was identified after it broke, not during the ring job.

OP, I don't think you could successfully nail their hide to the wall for not replacing the timing belt. If you were to knock on enough doors at the dealer, you might get some goodwill toward the needed engine repair. But it would likely still cost more than an independent shop would charge.

I would tow the van to the shop that replaced the timing belt and have them repair the engine. (Use a timing belt from Honda. If the tensioner, etc. was not replaced during the last TB job, get a complete Aisin TB kit from RockAuto and bring it to them. Aisin is Honda OEM.)

Also, get a VCM (Variable Cylinder Management) defeat device. VCM is why the engine needed a ring job in the first place.

Thanks. Do you think they could have done something to cause it to break though? What would cause a new timing belt to break? I'm also wondering if they changed the belt and I just didn't know about it kind of like the water pump. When they told me the timing belt broke, they just told me it broke and then there were crickets. I get these sense that they decided to say, "let's tell him the timing belt broke and see what he says." Immediately I thought it was the belt I had put on. Instead I feel like I should have asked clarifying questions. I'm skeptical of the games dealers play in general. But maybe am I taking it to far in my mind?

 

[WiiMaster]

Also, you likely wasted money on a ring job. A VCM disable plus new plugs would have likely fixed the problem for good. A ring job is only a temporary fix.

Have you talked to the shop that did your timing belt?

 

[Dudersup]

Also, you likely wasted money on a ring job. A VCM disable plus new plugs would have likely fixed the problem for good. A ring job is only a temporary fix.

Have you talked to the shop that did your timing belt?

If a VCM disable with new plugs fixes the problem. Why isn't Honda offering this or something like it as a solution? Even if you do this, this doesn't solve the damaged rings, right?

 

[Odyssey.owner]

If a VCM disable with new plugs fixes the problem. Why isn't Honda offering this or something like it as a solution? Even if you do this, this doesn't solve the damaged rings, right?

Honda would have to admit their crappy engineering on this VCM crap.
Piston rings don't get damaged most of the time. They just get stuck. That's why, most of the time VCM muzzler actually fixes the problem after a while. You also could use B12 cleaner in the gas tank.
As a last resort before the ring job, I would spray the seafoam or B12, through the spark plug hole, and let it soak overnight, may even do it twice.

 

[hpark21]

Good point. But the aftermarket belt was identified after it broke, not during the ring job.

But, they took the TB off during the ring job. I would think IF they felt "cheap belt" NOW, I don't think their assessment should have been different when they took it off and when they put it back on IMHO.

 

[hpark21]

If a VCM disable with new plugs fixes the problem. Why isn't Honda offering this or something like it as a solution? Even if you do this, this doesn't solve the damaged rings, right?

Because, it does not bring in $2k (or whatever for ring job)? Also, if they DO disable it, then it is like admitting that they KNOW it causes issues which POSSIBLY would be grounds for a costly recall not to mention that EPA estimate will go up.

 

[thscott]

I agree with the other posts that a $100 VCM muzzler probably would have solved all your issues.
I realize this info does you no good. I feel really bad for you and all the crap the dealer did to you. Why did you even take it to the dealer to begin with?

As said, Honda has never admitted to any issues with VCM and still offer it today on their engines.

 

[MrRangerZr1]

If a VCM disable with new plugs fixes the problem. Why isn't Honda offering this or something like it as a solution? Even if you do this, this doesn't solve the damaged rings, right?

Because the engineers at Honda are a bunch of nutcases. And Honda would have to pay a big penalty.

Disabling VCM 100% fixes the problem. This TSB issued by Honda doesn't do anything.

Honda can easily disable VCM through software, but no, they won't do that. That's fine, customers will go to another brand like the Toyota Sienna.

 

[MrRangerZr1]

Hey guys, I have a 2010 Oddyssey that had the common misfire problem, but was out of warranty. We paid out if pocket to have a piston re-ring completed. About 3 months later the engine shuts off randomly sitting idle in a parking lot. I sent it back to the same dealer, and they say the timing belt broke. The van has 113k miles. Timing belt was replaced at about 105k by someone else.

The dealer is not wanting to take any responsibility for what happened. I'm just now discovering they replaced the water pump when they did the ring job essentially replacing the 1 year old pump that was already there. I don't remember the pump being part of the scope of work, but they say it was. Why would they do the pump and not the timing belt? Either way they would have had to remove the belt to do the work.

They did a diagnostic and determined they "don't know" what caused the belt to break other than it was a "cheap aftermarket belt". It's a Mitsuboshi belt, which I've been told is actually the same belt and who makes the Honda oem belt. I now have bent valves and a van that doesn't turn on. Not really getting anything from the dealer in terms of a solution so far.

What would you do if you were me?

Actually the dealership IS liable for this. They touched the timing belt last, doesn't matter if it was replaced before, they were the last ones to touch the belt.

 

[davedrivesody]

Do you think they could have done something to cause it to break though?

Difficult to say without seeing the belt to determine exactly how it failed i.e. broke cleanly, shredded, ripped, etc.

Since the new TB lasted for 8K miles, I would be less inclined to suspect faulty installation. As a contra-example, if it had failed on your way home from the ring job, workmanship might be questioned.

What would cause a new timing belt to break?

It could fail prematurely for a number of reasons.

If no other TB component failed also (e.g. tensioner, idler pulley, etc.) it could simply have been inferior TB materials or manufacturing.

Sometimes a failed tensioner can destroy a perfectly healthy TB.

Perhaps defying logic, a TB is under the most stress with the engine at idle, just what yours was doing when it broke. That leads me to suspect a straight-up TB failure, but that's just speculation.

* Man, I feel bad for you. First for unknowingly paying for a bandaid ring job. Second for the damaged engine. This is too much grief with a car having barely more than 100K miles.

 

[Dudersup]

Thanks everyone. I forgot to mention that when the timing belt break broke and bent the valves it also broke my flux capacitor. Unfortunately, Doc Brown is not available to help either to replace the flux capacitor so I can't travel back in time to flip these guys the bird and disabling VCM as you guys are suggesting I should have done.

So, I know what many of you would have done if you weren't me, what would you do if you were me sitting in my shoes today knowing you can't travel back in time?

Thanks for the input!

 

[Odyssey.owner]

Thanks everyone. I forgot to mention that when the timing belt break broke and bent the valves it also broke my flux capacitor. Unfortunately, Doc Brown is not available to help either to replace the flux capacitor so I can't travel back in time to flip these guys the bird and disabling VCM as you guys are suggesting I should have done.

So, I know what many of you would have done if you weren't me, what would you do if you were me sitting in my shoes today knowing you can't travel back in time?

Thanks for the input!

Depending on your finances, you can buy JDM motor- $500-700 + $1000 installation.
Or, you can buy tools, watch a lot of YouTube videos, and DIY. To fix bent valves and do TB all over again, parts will be around $500 + about 2 weeks of labor, assuming you never done it before.
I have done it, but I would buy another engine now. Don't really have time for such a big repairs..

Another option is to get rid of the van..

 

[Bagwellbill]

I think you might be able to get somewhere if you get ahold of Honda directly. It’s hard to tell tho where it ran for a good while after they touched it. I just find it to be odd that they put in a water pump and now the tb broke. Maybe by the off chance you got a faulty water pump. Did you hear any odd noises coming from the tb area before it broke?

 

[davedrivesody]

what would you do

I would have the engine fixed.

I'm guessing the van is in decent shape since you invested in the ring job. When fixed (and de-VCM'd), it should be good for at least another 100K miles of service with minimal problems.

The fix would likely set you back about $2K. Painful for sure, but that's only about 4 new car payments.

The more bitter pill for me would getting over the injustice. This wouldn't be the first time, nor would it be the last.

 

[wscan]

Do you know where the timing belt was purchased? There are a lot of fake timing belts being sold,especially through online sources like ebay and Amazon. These belts tend to break rather quickly.

 

[adr5]

Hey guys, I have a 2010 Oddyssey that had the common misfire problem, but was out of warranty. We paid out if pocket to have a piston re-ring completed. About 3 months later the engine shuts off randomly sitting idle in a parking lot. I sent it back to the same dealer, and they say the timing belt broke. The van has 113k miles. Timing belt was replaced at about 105k by someone else.

The dealer is not wanting to take any responsibility for what happened. I'm just now discovering they replaced the water pump when they did the ring job essentially replacing the 1 year old pump that was already there. I don't remember the pump being part of the scope of work, but they say it was. Why would they do the pump and not the timing belt? Either way they would have had to remove the belt to do the work.

They did a diagnostic and determined they "don't know" what caused the belt to break other than it was a "cheap aftermarket belt". It's a Mitsuboshi belt, which I've been told is actually the same belt and who makes the Honda oem belt. I now have bent valves and a van that doesn't turn on. Not really getting anything from the dealer in terms of a solution so far.

What would you do if you were me?

Was the tensioner replaced when the TB was changed? That may have failed it it wasn't. In which case the dealer would not be at fault. Also, there have been plenty of reports of fake timing belts sourced from Amazon and ebay that failed shortly after being replaced. Do you know the source of your belt? It seems odd to me that the water pump would have been changed and it was not itemized on the dealer work order. I think you should move up the chain of command at the dealer. They obviously touched the timing belt when they replaced the water pump without telling you. That is a big red flag. I would reach out to Honda USA too.