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Discussion Starter #1
I am hoping to hear some opinions to the above topic.

Touring or EX-L RES??

Family of 5 - kids are 7,5 & 2.

The following are must haves...
Rear Entertainment System (RES)
Heated Seats
Power Doors / Lift Gate
Radio

Is a 6 speed necessary?
18" wheels really better than 17"?

Is there any great value in the Touring model?

Go ahead and be heard with your thoughts.
 

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I was in the same situation.

Touring:
- Navigation, though not needed, nice to have
- Memory seat, we only have one car between me and my wife so this is nice to have
- Blind spot detection, also nice to have
- 6-speed, not really know
- wide screen dual view, nice to have
- HDMI, nice, but not necessary, most of our trips are short trip 15-30 minutes
- 17" vs 18" wheel, don't care
- signal on mirror, nice look, don't care
- $6000+tax difference, huge, we decided to go with EX-L RES.
 

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Note that ftahir actually describes the features of the "Touring Elite", which is different than the "Touring".

I bought a (plain) "Touring" for the following features:

1. The backup camera. I've heard too many horror stories about people backing over their kids. This was a must-have for me and it really makes it easy to see/align the van when backing into or out of a parking space besides.
2. Parking sensors - I'm not very good at parking just right (center of space, right depth in garage, parallel parking, etc.) and the sensors help SO much.
3. Navigation - the nav system is nice and integrated with the car electronics (changing colors when your headlights do, being accessible via voice commands/steering wheel controls and using the van's Bluetooth link to dial up selected restaurants, for example).
4. Fuel economy - 4.5% better.

The following ended up being non-essential but pretty awesome, though.

1. Seat memory - I'm 6'3", my wife is 5'11". It's nice to have the driver's seat adjust itself to each of us when we press "unlock" on our respective key fobs.
2. Moon roof - kind of fun.
3. Integrated sunshades - help keep kids asleep by keeping sun out of their eyes!
4. Signal on mirror - I think it would help avoid accidentally merging into a car in the blind spot.

Whether all of that is worth $4,500 is up to you.
 

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boulder_bum said:
Note that ftahir actually describes the features of the "Touring Elite", which is different than the "Touring".

I bought a (plain) "Touring" for the following features:

1. The backup camera. I've heard too many horror stories about people backing over their kids. This was a must-have for me and it really makes it easy to see/align the van when backing into or out of a parking space besides.
2. Parking sensors - I'm not very good at parking just right (center of space, right depth in garage, parallel parking, etc.) and the sensors help SO much.
3. Navigation - the nav system is nice and integrated with the car electronics (changing colors when your headlights do, being accessible via voice commands/steering wheel controls and using the van's Bluetooth link to dial up selected restaurants, for example).
4. Fuel economy - 4.5% better.

The following ended up being non-essential but pretty awesome, though.

1. Seat memory - I'm 6'3", my wife is 5'11". It's nice to have the driver's seat adjust itself to each of us when we press "unlock" on our respective key fobs.
2. Moon roof - kind of fun.
3. Integrated sunshades - help keep kids asleep by keeping sun out of their eyes!
4. Signal on mirror - I think it would help avoid accidentally merging into a car in the blind spot.

Whether all of that is worth $4,500 is up to you.
EX-L has a back up camera in the MID;

Nav isn't necessary and you probably won't use it unless you are a travelling salesman;

Backup sensors - do we really need these to park? What did we do before?

6 speed - a bit busy for me, but better acceleration. The fuel economy when translated to $$ means about $150/year to the average driver.

I'd get the EX-L, the Touring options push the vehicle into something it isn't ( a luxury car - which is how it is priced)
 

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Shazzam said:
EX-L has a back up camera in the MID;

Nav isn't necessary and you probably won't use it unless you are a travelling salesman;

Backup sensors - do we really need these to park? What did we do before?

6 speed - a bit busy for me, but better acceleration. The fuel economy when translated to $$ means about $150/year to the average driver.

I'd get the EX-L, the Touring options push the vehicle into something it isn't ( a luxury car - which is how it is priced)
I thought you only had the backup camera with the EXL Navi and above, but I guess that's actually the multi-angle camera (with "wide" and "down-from-the-bumper" views).

At any rate, for someone who gushes so much over an AWD feature, you sure have a narrow view of the convenience of some of the electronics.

I personally use the navigation constantly, and it's especially great for family road trips when navigating unfamiliar towns and finding nearby gas stations and restaurants. I'm not even a traveling salesman!

I also have a tight two-car garage and am completely reliant on the parking sensors. With the beep indicators, I know just when I'm in the right spot to allow a walkway in front, and still be pulled into the garage enough that I don't close the garage door on the van. They also help tremendously for tight parallel parking. I'm pretty terrible at parking such a large vehicle, and the camera and sensors are a great help to me!

For the mileage, $150 in gas/year is $150 and it helps you recoup thousands over the life of the vehicle. It also pollutes around a ton and a half less carbon per year, for those concerned with such things.

The other extras are nice, too.

Personally, I love the Touring, though I think the EXL RES is a great choice, too. Again, it's subjective on whether you think the package is worth it.
 

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Sorry, but there is only one Touring in Canada.

My EX-L RES comes with parking sensor.

Sorry to side track, question for you with Touring, with memory seat, doe the rear view mirror position changes with the seat setting changes? How about side mirror?

boulder_bum said:
Note that ftahir actually describes the features of the "Touring Elite", which is different than the "Touring".

I bought a (plain) "Touring" for the following features:

1. The backup camera. I've heard too many horror stories about people backing over their kids. This was a must-have for me and it really makes it easy to see/align the van when backing into or out of a parking space besides.
2. Parking sensors - I'm not very good at parking just right (center of space, right depth in garage, parallel parking, etc.) and the sensors help SO much.
3. Navigation - the nav system is nice and integrated with the car electronics (changing colors when your headlights do, being accessible via voice commands/steering wheel controls and using the van's Bluetooth link to dial up selected restaurants, for example).
4. Fuel economy - 4.5% better.

The following ended up being non-essential but pretty awesome, though.

1. Seat memory - I'm 6'3", my wife is 5'11". It's nice to have the driver's seat adjust itself to each of us when we press "unlock" on our respective key fobs.
2. Moon roof - kind of fun.
3. Integrated sunshades - help keep kids asleep by keeping sun out of their eyes!
4. Signal on mirror - I think it would help avoid accidentally merging into a car in the blind spot.

Whether all of that is worth $4,500 is up to you.
 

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Originally posted by ftahir My EX-L RES comes with parking sensor.
Really? It's only listed on the Honda website as a feature on the 2011 Touring. Do you have them for front and back? Does anyone happen to know how the Touring and EX-L RES differ in this regard?

Originally posted by ftahir Sorry to side track, question for you with Touring, with memory seat, doe the rear view mirror position changes with the seat setting changes? How about side mirror?
Rear view mirror no, side view mirrors yes.
 

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boulder_bum said:
Really? It's only listed on the Honda website as a feature on the 2011 Touring.
Canadian model content can differ compared to US model content.
 

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boulder_bum said:
Do you have them for front and back?

Yes, I have front and back parking sensor. Also in we can't get EX-L here, only EX-L RES.
 

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cmi said:
I am hoping to hear some opinions to the above topic.

Touring or EX-L RES??

Family of 5 - kids are 7,5 & 2.

The following are must haves...
Rear Entertainment System (RES)
Heated Seats
Power Doors / Lift Gate
Radio

Is a 6 speed necessary?
18" wheels really better than 17"?

Is there any great value in the Touring model?

Go ahead and be heard with your thoughts.
Well, based on your "must-haves" then the EXL-RES has all those (and a lot more). So, perhaps you don't even have to dive much further.

I have an EXL-RES. Full disclosure, I couldn't afford a Touring anyway, so it wasn't something I seriously considered. If cost was no object whatsoever, then sure, those extra features are great. But as a value proposition? No.

As far as NAV, I'm sure its nice to have it integrated into the vehicle, just as it is great to have a dvd system integrated. But particularly with the nav systems, technology changes rapidly. If you plan on keeping the vehicle a long time, at some point you will be using technology that will be older than what's available in a portable unit for a fraction of the cost. For example, I have a friend who bought a 2010 Odyssey EXL R&N (no longer offered on the '11) who thinks that his nav system is highly inferior to that of the $200 Tom-Tom he was previously using. Well, of course it is---it was designed in 2004!

But anyway, one thing to keep in mind is that it seems to me that demand for Touring and Touring Elite's is probably higher right now than for other models, so you are likely going to pay an even great difference than the list price. I bought my EXL-RES for $32,700 (plus about $300 in accessories) which is still about the best price I've seen out there and is $500-$700 under invoice price. Now, I had to work really hard for that price and drive a little bit to get it, but I don't know that you're going to be able to get that kind of deal on a Touring. You may be looking at more like $1000 over invoice, which means the difference is going to be the difference in list price plus another $1000.

For that kind of money...seems hard to justify if you'll be satisified with the EXL. The EXL-RES has a lot. Compared to what our 2007 EXL had, its closer to what a Touring was back then. I do wish I had the 6-speed just because its newer technology, and I wish I had memory seats (not that big of an issue), but---for the price difference? The EXL audio system is much better than it used to be and I find it to be better than adequate. There EXL comes with the full MID display which is very attractive and useful and does in fact contain a good backup camera that even has markings for the footprint of the vehicle and how far the tailgate were to swing out if you opened it. Obviously, it has bluetooth, xm, etc. Point is, its still a sophisticated, technology-laden vehicle. I don't think you'll have any huge regrets and you'll be saving a lot of money.
 

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Here's another point of view...

Touring adds acoustic glass, low-resistance tires, 6 speed. All will cost more to maintain/replace.

I've also read a couple places that the better fuel economy of the Touring models is predominately due to the tires and minor body changes -- not the 6 speed.
 

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The decision is simple - Touring...

So you are going to get stuck with some 700+/month car payment s for EX-L, while envying Touring drivers as they go by, wishing you went all-in... Think about it!

The thing with portable NAVI devices - yeah they are cheap, yeah you can get latest and greatest (will you really buy new portable NAVI in less than 2 years?), and they are huge hassle - how many times have I read stories about how people get their cars broken in as thiefs go after portable navigation systems!!! It is just like car radios back in 80s and 90s... You will end up having to take it off, hide it, put it back on... hassles, hassles... and btw thiefs will still know you have a portable NAVI hidden in the car as those suction caps leave marks on the windshield. On the other side, I am yet to read a story about someone's car being broken in and in-built NAVI system taken out... :)
 

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boulder_bum said:
I thought you only had the backup camera with the EXL Navi and above, but I guess that's actually the multi-angle camera (with "wide" and "down-from-the-bumper" views).

At any rate, for someone who gushes so much over an AWD feature, you sure have a narrow view of the convenience of some of the electronics.

I personally use the navigation constantly, and it's especially great for family road trips when navigating unfamiliar towns and finding nearby gas stations and restaurants. I'm not even a traveling salesman!

I also have a tight two-car garage and am completely reliant on the parking sensors. With the beep indicators, I know just when I'm in the right spot to allow a walkway in front, and still be pulled into the garage enough that I don't close the garage door on the van. They also help tremendously for tight parallel parking. I'm pretty terrible at parking such a large vehicle, and the camera and sensors are a great help to me!

For the mileage, $150 in gas/year is $150 and it helps you recoup thousands over the life of the vehicle. It also pollutes around a ton and a half less carbon per year, for those concerned with such things.

The other extras are nice, too.

Personally, I love the Touring, though I think the EXL RES is a great choice, too. Again, it's subjective on whether you think the package is worth it.
Well I think I have test driven and compared these vans, features and driving characteristics more than most on these forums.

Maybe because I don't really want a mini van but find we need at least one of our vehicles to be one for carrying passengers and stuff, I did allot of testing to try and convince myself that a loaded model would make me happier.

So, maybe my perspective is a bit different than most here, but after all of the driving and testing, I think "dressing up" either the Odyssey or the Sienna to be a $46,000 Odyssey Touring or a $51,000 Sienna LTD AWD (in Canada), can result in a disappointment for someone who has owned a $50 - $70,000 vehicle.

Both of the vans are noisier than they should be, the base Honda has a 5 speed transmission that puts a drag on performance. The Honda has an odd bang when it hits certain types of rough road surfaces (several demo units did it) and both vans are a bit slow to warm up in the winter.

For me to load up one of these vehicles, is like trying to dress up a 6 to look like a 10 and at a fair expense to do so.

That is why i said I'd just get the EX-L (in Canada).

So what will I do? We're getting a base Sienna (with power side doors). We know how to back up without cameras and sensors and wouldn't rely on a camera to make sure there was no kid behind the car. If we need rear seat entertainment, my kid can watch a movie on the iPad.

So, instead of $51,000 for a loaded Sienna, we'll pay $30,000 for a base model. My wife will drive it, in place of her 2003 Accord which we will sell for $12,000.

With the $32,000 we net from the sale and the van savings, I'm ordering a 2011 BMW 535i X Drive (AWD).

I had one for a day last week. It heats up in 10 minutes (no matter what the outside temperature). While I'm waiting for the heat, I get instant seat heat and steering wheel heat. It has an excellent ride, handles like a dream, has 300 HP and gets 19 - 20 mpg in the city with it's 8 speed transmission. It is also whisper quiet in town and on the highway (less than 65 db at 70 mp/h - compared to the Odyssey's 75 db).

The only thing it can't do is carry more than our family of 4 (+1). We'll have the base purpose built mini van for that. The BMW is no mass people mover and I've discovered that no matter how many options you load an Odyssey or Sienna up with, it is a far cry from the luxury it should be for it's price and the option costs are not justified.

That is why I recommended the the EX-L. A recent car magazine review came to the same conclusion. It said that they would buy a base model and save thousands over the more costly Touring model. After all of my testing - I agree.

By the way, I didn't gush over AWD, I was responding to those who say that awd has no real advantage over FWD. If you drive a car in the winter on snow covered roads, it helps you get around.

Shazzam


PS, Maybe you could have skipped the extra stuff on your van and built a larger garage instead, then you wouldn't need parking sensors to park.

I hung a tennis ball from the ceiling for my wife. Now she knows exactly when to put the car in park. As long as she doesn't tun the steering wheel when she is backing up, she goes out exactly the same way she came in (parking sensors don't really help with that anyway). That solution cost us about $0.03 for the string. We used an old tennis ball.

PPS "Recoup thousands" you say. What, at $150/year. That would be 10 years o get $1,500 back and in Canada, it costs $6,000 to get a 6 speed along with a bunch of stuff people on these forums say they don't really want. I don't see the payback in the transmission, but it does get the vehicle moving faster (although it is much busier operating than either the Sienna of the Chrysler T&C Touring).

I am driving a Chrysler Touring for 2 weeks while I'm vacationing in southern California. Don't like th steering, seats, styling etc. the gas mileage is poor, but: the engine is smooth and quiet, the transmission shifts flawlessly and it is quieter than both the Sienna and Honda on the highway (at least on these highways).
 

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Re: Re: 2011 Touring or EX-L RES

MFLetou said:
Well, based on your "must-haves" then the EXL-RES has all those (and a lot more). So, perhaps you don't even have to dive much further.

I have an EXL-RES. Full disclosure, I couldn't afford a Touring anyway, so it wasn't something I seriously considered. If cost was no object whatsoever, then sure, those extra features are great. But as a value proposition? No.

As far as NAV, I'm sure its nice to have it integrated into the vehicle, just as it is great to have a dvd system integrated. But particularly with the nav systems, technology changes rapidly. If you plan on keeping the vehicle a long time, at some point you will be using technology that will be older than what's available in a portable unit for a fraction of the cost. For example, I have a friend who bought a 2010 Odyssey EXL R&N (no longer offered on the '11) who thinks that his nav system is highly inferior to that of the $200 Tom-Tom he was previously using. Well, of course it is---it was designed in 2004!

But anyway, one thing to keep in mind is that it seems to me that demand for Touring and Touring Elite's is probably higher right now than for other models, so you are likely going to pay an even great difference than the list price. I bought my EXL-RES for $32,700 (plus about $300 in accessories) which is still about the best price I've seen out there and is $500-$700 under invoice price. Now, I had to work really hard for that price and drive a little bit to get it, but I don't know that you're going to be able to get that kind of deal on a Touring. You may be looking at more like $1000 over invoice, which means the difference is going to be the difference in list price plus another $1000.

For that kind of money...seems hard to justify if you'll be satisified with the EXL. The EXL-RES has a lot. Compared to what our 2007 EXL had, its closer to what a Touring was back then. I do wish I had the 6-speed just because its newer technology, and I wish I had memory seats (not that big of an issue), but---for the price difference? The EXL audio system is much better than it used to be and I find it to be better than adequate. There EXL comes with the full MID display which is very attractive and useful and does in fact contain a good backup camera that even has markings for the footprint of the vehicle and how far the tailgate were to swing out if you opened it. Obviously, it has bluetooth, xm, etc. Point is, its still a sophisticated, technology-laden vehicle. I don't think you'll have any huge regrets and you'll be saving a lot of money.
I agree.
 

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Shazzam said:
PS, Maybe you could have skipped the extra stuff on your van and built a larger garage instead, then you wouldn't need parking sensors to park.
The timing of our purchase coincided with a 15 hour Thanksgiving road trip to grandma's house, and we ourselves were very happy to have the "extra stuff". The GPS helped us navigate unfamiliar territory and the DVD player was a godsend for long travel with three toddlers.

It's valid not to want some of the stuff, but I personally find some of the electronics indispensable and am sort of a gadget nut anyway.

Shazzam said:
I hung a tennis ball from the ceiling for my wife.
We actually have some tennis balls but have them tied up out of the way now. They started to rub off on the windshields a bit, they only help when you hit a specific point (vs. when you're first pulling in and avoiding the walls to the sides) and they're no good when parking outside of your garage of course.

As to rebuilding my garage, I think the sensors make up a few hundred dollars of the options package, and I'd rather pay that premium than rip down load-bearing walls of my two story house.

Here in the states, the jump from the EX-L RES to the Touring is "only" $4,500, so it doesn't sting quite as much.

Shazzam said:
PPS "Recoup thousands" you say. What, at $150/year. That would be 10 years o get $1,500 back and in Canada
Recouping some cost doesn't mean completely recovering the initial premium. However, assuming the van will last 20 years, you make up quite a bit in operating expenses, even assuming that the price of gas doesn't increase.

That makes the value proposition of a Touring upgrade a little be better in the long run.

Also, good for you on the BMW, though I'd personally rather the Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf. ;)
 

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boulder_bum said:
The timing of our purchase coincided with a 15 hour Thanksgiving road trip to grandma's house, and we ourselves were very happy to have the "extra stuff". The GPS helped us navigate unfamiliar territory and the DVD player was a godsend for long travel with three toddlers.

It's valid not to want some of the stuff, but I personally find some of the electronics indispensable and am sort of a gadget nut anyway.



We actually have some tennis balls but have them tied up out of the way now. They started to rub off on the windshields a bit, they only help when you hit a specific point (vs. when you're first pulling in and avoiding the walls to the sides) and they're no good when parking outside of your garage of course.

As to rebuilding my garage, I think the sensors make up a few hundred dollars of the options package, and I'd rather pay that premium than rip down load-bearing walls of my two story house.

Here in the states, the jump from the EX-L RES to the Touring is "only" $4,500, so it doesn't sting quite as much.



Recouping some cost doesn't mean completely recovering the initial premium. However, assuming the van will last 20 years, you make up quite a bit in operating expenses, even assuming that the price of gas doesn't increase.

That makes the value proposition of a Touring upgrade a little be better in the long run.

Also, good for you on the BMW, though I'd personally rather the Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf. ;)
You keep your van 20 years?? As to the Leaf, I use a bicycle when I want to be green. In the USA, the bulk of your electricity comes from coal fired generation plants, some of the dirtiest sources out there. It isn't much better than the E85 scam, using corn to create a fuel that has 1/5th the energy of gas, while sucking the earth of moisture and jacking up the cost of feed to farmers raising cattle.

My BMW will equal your Touring in fuel economy.

I still stand by my opinion (as do you), but the car magazines have seen through the loaded up lack of value issue - it took me several weeks of driving and comparing to see the light.

Enjoy. :)
 

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Shazzam said:
You keep your van 20 years??
I buy vehicles for the long haul and plan to pretty much run mine into the ground. I definitely don't treat vehicles like they're disposable and want something that's made to last (which is part of why I looked at Honda over American brands).

So, yes, I do plan to recoup thousands of dollars in the operating costs of the vehicle over the long term vs. the less efficient EX-L RES.

Shazzam said:
As to the Leaf, I use a bicycle when I want to be green. In the USA, the bulk of your electricity comes from coal fired generation plants, some of the dirtiest sources out there. It isn't much better than the E85 scam, using corn to create a fuel that has 1/5th the energy of gas, while sucking the earth of moisture and jacking up the cost of feed to farmers raising cattle.
This is a small tangent, but one that interests me, so I'll bite.

First, bikes are great!

Second, corn ethanol ends up causing more net pollution than gasoline, as does hydrogen fuel (currently). Those fuels don't make sense but the gasoline and agribusiness lobbies like them because they're big money makers. However, with electric cars, it's a whole other matter.

For one thing, well established studies show they they pollute less than gas even if getting 100% of electricity from coal power (big power plants can afford to be more efficient than individual cars), but the beauty of electricity is that you can swap out the underlying source of energy generation and you're not tied to a single fuel.

The electric grid can move to wind or nuclear and you won't require a new car supporting a different fuel source!

You can even plop a solar array on your house and make your own energy!

Electric cars are definitely the medium if not long term future of the automobile.

Shazzam said:
My BMW will equal your Touring in fuel economy.
I'm not sure that I'm supposed to be impressed that your sedan equals my minivan in fuel economy, but I used a Prius for my family of five and it worked great!

The only reason we're in a minivan now is that we're expecting our fourth kiddo in a few months and there's no fitting four car seats in any vehicle without third row seating.

Shazzam said:
I still stand by my opinion (as do you), but the car magazines have seen through the loaded up lack of value issue - it took me several weeks of driving and comparing to see the light.
To each his own I guess. The value is subjective, though I've read many articles on the Odyssey and none of them said the Touring was a waste of money. I think the Touring Elite/Canadian Touring is a bit much for my tastes, but CNET actually gave the Elite "Editor's Choice".
 

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boulder_bum said:
I buy vehicles for the long haul and plan to pretty much run mine into the ground. I definitely don't treat vehicles like they're disposable and want something that's made to last (which is part of why I looked at Honda over American brands).

So, yes, I do plan to recoup thousands of dollars in the operating costs of the vehicle over the long term vs. the less efficient EX-L RES.



This is a small tangent, but one that interests me, so I'll bite.

First, bikes are great!

Second, corn ethanol ends up causing more net pollution than gasoline, as does hydrogen fuel (currently). Those fuels don't make sense but the gasoline and agribusiness lobbies like them because they're big money makers. However, with electric cars, it's a whole other matter.

For one thing, well established studies show they they pollute less than gas even if getting 100% of electricity from coal power (big power plants can afford to be more efficient than individual cars), but the beauty of electricity is that you can swap out the underlying source of energy generation and you're not tied to a single fuel.

The electric grid can move to wind or nuclear and you won't require a new car supporting a different fuel source!

You can even plop a solar array on your house and make your own energy!

Electric cars are definitely the medium if not long term future of the automobile.



I'm not sure that I'm supposed to be impressed that your sedan equals my minivan in fuel economy, but I used a Prius for my family of five and it worked great!

The only reason we're in a minivan now is that we're expecting our fourth kiddo in a few months and there's no fitting four car seats in any vehicle without third row seating.



To each his own I guess. The value is subjective, though I've read many articles on the Odyssey and none of them said the Touring was a waste of money. I think the Touring Elite/Canadian Touring is a bit much for my tastes, but CNET actually gave the Elite "Editor's Choice".
This is a great dialog. I agree with your assessment of the viability of electric "fuels" from various sources. Currently, electric vehicles have no real payback, so you need to want to make an environmental statement (nothing wrong with that).

In addition the pure electrics have limited range, can't tow and have capacity, so they have limited appeal at this point. When you factor in accelerated depreciation (because in 5 years the new E vehicles will go twice as far on half the cell power), e cars are an expensive proposition.

Finally, I worry about the effect of electromagnetic fields on small children (I have 2). No one is talking about this but there have been studies that link cancer to people who live close to electrical transmission towers and those studies suggest that the above ground power lines to your home should not connect to the house near ids bedrooms. Personally, I'd just get a diesel.
 

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Shazzam said:
This is a great dialog. I agree with your assessment of the viability of electric "fuels" from various sources. Currently, electric vehicles have no real payback, so you need to want to make an environmental statement (nothing wrong with that).

In addition the pure electrics have limited range, can't tow and have capacity, so they have limited appeal at this point. When you factor in accelerated depreciation (because in 5 years the new E vehicles will go twice as far on half the cell power), e cars are an expensive proposition.

Finally, I worry about the effect of electromagnetic fields on small children (I have 2). No one is talking about this but there have been studies that link cancer to people who live close to electrical transmission towers and those studies suggest that the above ground power lines to your home should not connect to the house near ids bedrooms. Personally, I'd just get a diesel.
I actually agree with you on a lot of that. I think a lot of envirotech in general is made because buyers are willing to pay more in order to have a smaller footprint.

Take solar panels, for example. In theory, you can recoup the initial cost after 20 years or so, but that's not the point of getting them.

Hybrids and electrics are certainly meant to be people movers, but that's what I think 99% of the populace needs 99% of the time. For me and my Prius, I used it to haul my family around daily, but I rented a truck from Lowe's for a few hours when I needed to move several tons of mulch to my curb.

As to range of electrics, I think it's more of a "problem" for pure electrics, which work great for the commute back and forth to work and around town, but aren't meant for long road trips. Then again, it's another situation where the few times you need a different vehicle, you can simply rent it a few days and drive relatively cleanly the other 360 days of the year.

There are also plug-in hybrids and electric cars like the Volt has a gasoline engine to generate electricity when the charge depletes, so I think manufacturers are coming up with creative ways to meet both range and emissions goals.

For EMF, however, I'm not sure how electric cars fare, but I know hybrids like the Prius actually give off less radiation than a 2008 Subaru Impreza, for example (much less than a non-hybrid Cobalt). I assume there's similarly negligible risk for pure electrics, though I don't have any measurements.

Mythbuster: EMF levels in hybrids
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/08/mythbuster-emf-levels-in-hybrids-.html
 

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boulder_bum said:
I actually agree with you on a lot of that. I think a lot of envirotech in general is made because buyers are willing to pay more in order to have a smaller footprint.

Take solar panels, for example. In theory, you can recoup the initial cost after 20 years or so, but that's not the point of getting them.

Hybrids and electrics are certainly meant to be people movers, but that's what I think 99% of the populace needs 99% of the time. For me and my Prius, I used it to haul my family around daily, but I rented a truck from Lowe's for a few hours when I needed to move several tons of mulch to my curb.

As to range of electrics, I think it's more of a "problem" for pure electrics, which work great for the commute back and forth to work and around town, but aren't meant for long road trips. Then again, it's another situation where the few times you need a different vehicle, you can simply rent it a few days and drive relatively cleanly the other 360 days of the year.

There are also plug-in hybrids and electric cars like the Volt has a gasoline engine to generate electricity when the charge depletes, so I think manufacturers are coming up with creative ways to meet both range and emissions goals.

For EMF, however, I'm not sure how electric cars fare, but I know hybrids like the Prius actually give off less radiation than a 2008 Subaru Impreza, for example (much less than a non-hybrid Cobalt). I assume there's similarly negligible risk for pure electrics, though I don't have any measurements.

Mythbuster: EMF levels in hybrids
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/08/mythbuster-emf-levels-in-hybrids-.html

I'd like to see the emf test results for the back seat area where the battery, plus supply cables are located, right underneath where my children are located. I'm not so sure Consumer Reports has busted the myth and after the car seat test debacle of last year, everyting I read on their site is taken with a grain of salt.
 
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