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Nope didn't know that but it does explain the general tone.
Imagine going into the guys shop....
Is this how he talks to potential customers?
If you don't do exactly as he says or even think to question his authority....

Thanks for the info.
I would absolutely want this straight-shooter working on my vehicles. Solid knowledge-based honesty is something I as a customer would want, any day. I might not be happy about those answers ($$$), but I would have solid answers on which to base my decision as a customer.(y)(y)(y)
 

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Hi John the front plate of the clutch is not spinning.
If you have the AC commanded on but the compressor is not engaging it could be either a bad relay for the compressor clutch, or more likely, low refrigerant. Since you say it gradually stopped working that tells me that it likely has a leak and has no refrigerant in it. To check the refrigerant level takes special tools ( like the manifold gauge set already discussed in the colorful discussion above) so not sure if you're up to that kind of diagnostic or not.
 
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Most likely you have low refrigerant. The most common reason for low refrigerant is a leak and the most common location for leaks on these is the condenser in front of the radiator. Look for wet oily spots on the condenser, most often on the sides where the small horizontal tubes attach to the cylinders on each side. You can look through the grille and the front bumper and see if you can spot any signs of leakage.
 
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Are you kidding me an educated ESTIMATE??

You have to be EXACT I thought?

Weren't u just talking about weighing everything to be exactly precise.

I mean we are talking about a SMALL passenger vehicle....
That part of the conversation was centering around a small amount of oil loss.

You totally missed it. Small AC systems are critical for refrigerant quantity.

Mobile systems (portable and automotive) are designed with sumps and small "traps" at various points of the system to serve as de-facto oil reservoirs (i.e., given the nature of oil holdup in the mass of refrigerant and system size, there is no need for a dedicated device). Your biggest "sump" is almost always in the compressor itself (like the Denso 471-1190 I took apart last year). In general, with complete, controlled recovery of refrigerant for a system holding about 3-1/2 pounds of R134a, the industry answer is to add back ~1 ounce of refrigerant oil (per the Robinair e-database that my local station uses on my Hondas, using ND-8 or PAG 46, in our case).

Why is it not an "exact quantity" of oil? Because these systems are not critical for oil quantity. They have significantly larger amounts of leeway for oil servicing, relatively speaking, when compared to refrigerant quantity.

For Larry, if his Odyssey has a leak that can be repaired in situ, the refrigerant charge will most likely include an extra 1 ounce of refrigerant oil. If the condenser must be replaced, the FSM specifies an additional replacement quantity of oil. All of my Honda FSM's have a table broken down by component for oil servicing.

What irks me to no end is this "A/C PRO" company and their "fake hope" products. STAY AWAY from this garbage:
156282

Oh, and don't get me started on these damned getups:
156283

Yeah, it says "CERTIFIED" and "Professional Grade" and "Recalibrateable" (which PMEL with a decent reputation would ever sign up to do that for these hacks?!), so these gauges must be properly calibrated in the relevant zone (refrigerant type dependent) of their measuring range, right? Who the hell knows? These "A/C PRO" people never answer their email. I wonder how many people accidentally (illegally) release refrigerant into the atmosphere using this red chinese junk?

Despite all my HVAC gear, if a major component needs to be replaced, I still have to take the vehicle to that same local EPA-licensed shop (he has 608 and 609 certs for small appliances and automotive) and pay him to perform a full refrigerant recovery prior to me taking it back home to break the lines and remove/replace components.

OF
 

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Well, actually, I have that ACPro set of manifold gauges and have had it for about 5 years. I bought them at Autozone when I was visiting my mom on the other side of the country. She needed some AC work done and that was all that was available as they had nothing in stock to rent. She bought them but then told me to keep them as she obviously didn't need them. At that time I had just the set of HF gauges at home that were REAL junk. That AC Pro set has worked just fine for all the work I've done until getting the Robinair machine back in Feb.

I don't touch the ACPro in a can, of course, and wish others wouldn't either.
 

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I am impressed...they do actually work. I'm uber skeptical of any of the ACPro products, but here we have it from the horse's mouth with real experience on this stuff. You have to admit, though ... the advertising on the box is not confidence-inspiring. I'd like to see what company actually performs the re-cal on these things.

My gripe with those auto store gauge sets is that so many people who don't know anything about refrigeration buy and use these things, and will invariably dump refrigerant into the atmosphere, rather than pay a cert'd pro with the machinery (like yours, and like the guy downtown in my burg) to properly and legally recover / recycle the refrigerant. It is THE only way to do this job.

They don't realize that there's other things that have to be measured on an equilibrated system, like relative humidity and air handler (evaporator) inlet and exhaust temperature just to go into the manufacturer's P/T charts. I get it, "buyer beware" for those hopeful DIY'ers wanting to revitalize their car's AC system during a brutal summer, but the more I hear about people buying gauges without the other necessary items, and then they think that the pressure readings using a chart printed on the box are good enough.... and then after adding a 12-ounce can of R134a, they think "Wow, it's really putting out cold air, now!" and not realizing they grossly overcharged it, and POW ... they wreck their own expensive automotive AC system. The more I think about it, these things shouldn't be sold at the local Autozone.

OF
 

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Yeah, people will vent refrigerant but HFC134a is not ozone depleting. It has a high global warming potential, if you buy into that whole business, but that's it. Unlike the R12 which was a CFC that did deplete the ozone. It's best not to vent it but, in my opinion, isn't the end of the world (aside from being illegal.) That's obviously why they sell the stuff at the store and you don't need to be certified to buy it. 1234yf is not ozone depleting, and has a low GWP which is why they're moving to it. Personally, I think it's unnecessary but nobody asked me. The worst part about R134a being sold at any parts store is that people blow up their compressors, myself included, from overcharging. I used to think as the above poster, that you can charge with gauges. That is until the compressor failed on my Nissan, along with the expansion valve shortly after a mishap with junk HF gauges and the subsequent attempt to fill it back up with gauges. That was the last time I ever attempted that again.
 
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The worst part about R134a being sold at any parts store is that people blow up their compressors, myself included, from overcharging. I used to think as the above poster, that you can charge with gauges.
Completely agree, and I too used to think that charging with gauges was sufficient.

Full disclosure ... I also attempted a "gauges only" servicing of an R12 system once. I did enjoy very cool air for all of two weeks. Then one of the high side lines exploded while operating the AC on a summer day's drive. Given that R12 has reduced high side and low side pressures compared to R134a, I consider wrecking that AC system as possibly the most dubious "achievement" of my life.

I still try to do the "right thing" and have a cert'd pro with the right equipment recover any system before I have to break lines and replace something (namely a failed compressor or damaged condenser in my case; I usually won't have to touch anything else on a maintained system). Once reassembled, I pull vacuum and then charge using a digital refrigerant scale from a 30-lb. bottle.

Yes, I believe going to R1234yf is not necessary as well, but it's happening. I do not buy into the GWP "evil" of R134a nor total anthropogenic-driven climate change, either.

My 2003 EX had the AC serviced by our local pro about 6-1/2 years ago. Our 2002 EX has even more time on the last AC servicing. Time to replace the cores and get both vehicles' AC serviced again.

OF
 

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Is this not normal behavior of Honda ACs? Last summer I bought a 2017 SE with 30k miles. The AC is ridiculously cold while driving but doesn’t work great while parked. Every model I test drove was the same. My neighbor says his accord works the same way. I had the van inspected by a dealer under warranty and they said it was operating properly.
I’m in Charleston S.C. whole not as hot as AZ we do get 2 straight months of mid 90’s with 60%-90% humidity.
 

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They're always colder while driving as the condenser is cooled better. As long as the system is fully charged and both fans work on high speed, it's likely fine. That said, my van gets nice and cold at idle. It has a complete new system in it though.
 

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are the 2017's not using the 1234yf refrigerant?

been hearing lots of cooling related complaints with that refrigerant, besides it being astronomically expensive to buy.
 

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I think the yf1234 is used in 2018 and above.
 

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They're always colder while driving as the condenser is cooled better.
That, and there might be a limitation of how much the refrigerant is circulated/compressed at idle too. I've noticed just as much of an improvement with increasing engine RPM (while not moving) that road speed previous vehicles. It is easy in a manual trans car.... just heel-toe the engine up to 1500rpm or so at a light if you aren't getting enough cooling. In an auto, bump it into neutral first - just go back to idle before shifting back to drive. That is all from older (2005 and earlier) vehicles with good working AC systems.

-Charlie
 

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Pressures shouldn't change much with rpm. If they do, it's likely there is likely a low refrigerant situation or other malfunction in the compressor or metering device. R134a auto systems, unlike the R12 systems of yesteryear, are what are called "critical charge" systems. Cooling efficiency is lost with even minimal refrigerant loss. They use less refrigerant that old R12 systems. So, if the system is just a few ounces low you will start to notice effects if you know what to look for. Also, expansion valve systems will work differently than fixed orifice systems.
 

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Pressures shouldn't change much with rpm. If they do, it's likely there is likely a low refrigerant situation or other malfunction in the compressor or metering device.
My daily driver is still has R12 in it (refreshed/recharged about 5 years ago professionally).... so that could be coloring my views.

-Charlie
 

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My daily driver is still has R12 in it (refreshed/recharged about 5 years ago professionally).... so that could be coloring my views.
Sir Charles, consider yourself blessed to have a road vehicle that still uses the adiabatically awesome R12 refrigerant. :cool:

OF
 
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Also, some vehicles have an engine driven fan where cooling can be affected by engine rpm at idle. There are so many variables. Not every vehicle can be diagnosed the same.
 

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I just find it interesting that this vans Ac is colder than any vehicle I’ve owned, even on the hottest days I don’t turn it all the way down But it works noticeably less well when parked and I’ve never had a vehicle where that was the case.
 
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