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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys. I am new to ODY Club. I purchased a 2012 Odyssey Touring about a month ago. I am used to doing most of the maintenance myself, and found out in a PDF manual for installation of the ATF Cooler that the 2012 Odyssey has an external in line ATF filter. Does anyone know what brand/kind filter this is? I am wondering if it is a rebadged Magnefine filter or something similar to it.

Also, has anyone replaced the transmission fluid in a 2011-2013 Odyssey yet? I saw some videos online that showed how to replace the fluid in some older models, but don't know if its the same procedure for the 2011-2013. Also, I am curious as to how to replace the internal transmission filter as well.

Thanks,

BrooklynODY
 

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I have replaced the AT fluid in my 11' TE twice. I am currently at 29K miles. I'm coming from several Honda as well as an Acura TL Type S that were well known to have transmission problems. I am doing a drain and fill to slowly replace the DW1 fluid and replacing it with a truly full synthetic without friction modifiers. Honda no longer uses the Z1, but from the research I've done, the DW1 doesn't boost any confidence in ensuring a long life of the tranny either. I'd rather not get into this long story, but since you were asking, that's my two cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi soopadoopa. Thanks for the response. Can you please tell me the procedure for changing the tranny fluid in your 2011? Is it the same as in the older models where you have a drain plug that you loosen? Also, are you using Mobile 1 Synthetic ATF fluid? Finally, do you know anything about the internal and external ATF filters?

Thanks.
 

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subscribed... interesting to hear that you'd have to change out the tranny fluid that often...
 

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The procedure for changing out the tranny oil is not anything different than changing your motor oil. There is a drain plug with a square recessed hole that fits a 3/8 inch ratchet. It is located on the drivers underside. The plug is facing sideways vs. a motor oil drain plug, which faces down. Simply drain then refill plug, then measure output and refill with same amount. I used a gallon water jug and put graduated lines using pre-measured water amounts, so I knew how much oil drained out. Next, you'll probably have to use a several different sized of funnels to refill through the tranny dipstick hole. Kind of a pain, but really not that bad.


Now, about the transmission fluid and why I'm changing it. The older generation second generation Acura TLs suffered from automatic transmission failures. Honda never disclosed the reason, but American Honda either offered an extended warranty or they replaced the transmissions. Many of which were severely premature (much like the ones you'll read about here with the Odysseys).


I don't have to tell you that a lot of the members who belong to forums are here for information, but are also very passionate about their vehicles. I, myself, am very particular about my vehicles.


It turns out, some of the members on a particular forum, who have very extensive experience and knowledge in Honda/Acura as well as general racing and automotive went and got their transmissions tore down and examined for wear prior to possible failure. It turns out the transmission fluid contributed a great deal to the failures. The fluid it turns out broke down, and due to the high content of friction modifiers,( to soften and smooth shifts) wore down the clutch packs, especially the 3rd and 4th gear clutches. Those same guys, through trial and error, found that when they used a Type F racing fluid with zero friction modifiers it gave them a more distinct and faster shift (some might call it a harder shift), but when reexamined after various mileage checkpoints the transmission gears and clutch packs showed significant differences. Ultimately the sacrifice for the lack of friction modifiers give harder shifts, but it prolongs your transmission.


Anyhow, Honda no longer recognizes or uses the old Z1 fluid, but the new formulation and name, DW1, doesn't appear to have resolved the issue. (Have you read how many members here are complaining of severe, if not catastrophic, tranny failures so prematureley?)


Most of the guys did what they called a 3x3 drain and fill, which meant essentially 3 quarts drain and fill, 3 times over whatever time or mileage period they chose or were comfortable doing. After 3, the car had most of the old fluid out and the majority of the fluid was the type f.


Take it for what it is. You may never have any problems and I hope you don't, but I did it for the sake of......longevity. When I sold my Acura, I disclosed to the buyer the tranny issues and he was well aware of it. He, it just so happened, was the original owner of a 2001 Acura TL that was going on its 4th transmission replacement! Yikes. it turns out, when Honda replaces the transmission, they replace it with another remanufactured transmission, which in this case didn't last long. Anyhow more than the tranny the inconvenience of the situation alone was worth the minimal effort I put into my 3x3. I'm sure I can still find the links to the forum and if you're interested, I'll send it along.


By the way, I use a ture fully synthetic oil. The brand is Redline. It's called Redline Type F Racing transmission. Good luck.


Jae
 

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I forgot to mention, yes, I'm looking into an external transmission cooler, but time and money will obviously dictate when that will get done. I had some concerns before I made a long trip to North Carolina this past July over those long mountain hills, but the van pulled strong. I'm sure it taxed the tranny some with a car full of cargo, two adults and three kids, but no problems so far. I'm subscribed to one of the threads on this forum regarding an external tranny cooler, so yeah, I got that on my list.

Jae
 

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soopa, so far, all of the posts I've seen regarding friction modifiers have offered no tangible evidence to support that angle. Believe me, I've looked for it to see if anybody has come up with hard data from a materials science (laboratory) perspective, and so far, I've found nothing. Again, no documentation, no data from an instrumented tranny to show that friction-modified ATF has caused the demise of any of these A/T's. However, there are a bunch of guys on other forums, and this one as well, who are sure that was the problem...it seems to be an urban legend that is gaining legs.

In fact, we've had at least two Odyclubbers do an A/T teardown & rebuild, and they found that ATF-Z1 did a great job of preserving clutch friction measured dimensions on clutch packs 1,2,4 and 5. It does not seem a friction modified ATF like Z1 did anything bad in terms of clutch wear.

The NHTSA did a complete analysis on the five speed Acura TL transmissions (these B7WA coded A/T's are nearly identical in construction to the BYBA coded A/T's for the Gen 2 Ody five-speeds). See this thread: Possible Causes of A/T Problems

Like yourself, I personally am a believer in not having any clutch pack slip any more than necessary to accomplish a gear change. Is a type F synthetic better? Could be. So far, we've had people on this forum use varying blends of a high quality synthetic ATF mixed wth Redline Type F with positive results. It may not save an A/T with the list of problems found by the NHTSA, but it may allow that A/T to live longer. Possibly a whole lot longer.

OF
 

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Joe, I am glad to see someone having true hands on proof instead of going by marketing hype (remember slick50?).
We have a 2012 Odyssey that just turned 5000 miles last week. I was quite shocked and disapointed when I logged on here and discovered the many problems people have had with these vans. Wasn't too long ago Honda built a quality car.
Personally, I have always been a fan of Mobile One synthetic oils for street cars. When you say you use type F fluid, you are talking the old Ford type F, right? Also, the oil guy we work with tells us that for street bound vehicles, redline is overkill. It's a better oil, but the heat resistance is the main benifit, and it's just not needed in a typical street car, esp a stock family car. The people that recomended this oil to you, did they say it was an aditive (or lack of) that made this a prefered oil for this situation?
 

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OF, Thanks for your input. I agree, I did not have first hand knowledge nor did I witness firsthand, the transmission teardowns, but I simply weighed the pros and cons of such a preventive measure from the findings of others, who elected to share and made the decision to follow suit. Yes, it's probably overkill to use the Redline, and from what I've read, the Redline, has a very high shear strength, because it's made for racing applications. Either way, it gives me a little peace of mind. At least in terms of ensuring a longer clutch life, but if you have any other ideas, I would love to hear it and I'd value your opinion as well.
 

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OF, One more thing. So you still have the utmost confidence in Honda's ATF? Aren't you at all weary or concerned to any degree about Honda's DW1? I know a majority of the transmission problems occurred with the Z1 fluid, but I can't help but be apprehensive even with their newly formulated DW1. Just curious what your thoughts would be on this.
 

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Never said I have utmost confidence in their ATF. Just that the failure mechanism tied to friction-modified ATF is not proven.

Given only a choice between ATF-Z1 (or DW-1) and a quality synthetic like Redline? Redline all the way, baby. I'm an AmSOil ATF user myself; if the 3rd clutch on either of my Odys (2002, 2003) has a single one of the NHTSA-identified problem areas, you can bet the 3rd clutch is not getting the originally designed ATF flow spec. Only a high-quality synthetic has a chance of helping to enhance A/T longevity.

OF

To somewhat quote MTPockets (Joel, one of our esteemed forum members), Heavens knows, ATF-Z1 hasn't stopped A/T's from grenading.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Can I use Mobil 1 Synthetic Transmission Fluid?

Also, does anyone have any info on the external in line ATF filter?

Thanks.
 

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I have never used Mobil 1 synthetic ATF, but there is a healthy number of very happy Mobil 1 synthetic ATF users on this forum. I don't think Mobil makes anything that disagrees with a Honda Odyssey of any generation.

Did not know that the Gen 4 Odys have an external inline ATF filter. I looked, out of curiosity, on the Bernardi parts site, but did not find it.

OF
 

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I use everything Mobil 1 makes in my other cars and cycles. They do not list their ATF's as being okay for any Honda transmission specification
 

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Do you suggest that we need to change ATF as soon as possible after we get the van to minimize the tranny problem?

I use new blank sheet of printing paper as a funnel and work every time..b/c I could not find and small funnel that fit with the tranny dipstick hole.
 

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If my parts diagram-fu is correct, it looks like the 2011+ Odysseys have external, user-accessible ATF filters. Please refer to your respective "AT Oil Level Gauge - ATF Pipe" diagram.

5AT: 25450-P4V-013 (near the base of the ATF dipstick tube, under a 2-bolt cover)
6AT: 25430-PLR-003 (driver's side of the tranny case, about mid-height, held on by a bracket, lines have compression bands)

The installation instructions for the ATF cooler for the Touring models state that one of the cooler lines actually plumb directly into the filter. The process doesn't look difficult, just time consuming. Looks like you have to pull off the front bumper cover.


-Carl[/

This is obviously from a different thread, but this gentleman obviously found what I have been planning of looking for. Perhaps this weekend I may find some time to crawl under and do some investigation while the kids are sleeping/napping.

Jae
 

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They do not list their ATF's as being okay for any Honda transmission specification
True! Mobil 1 does not list ATF-Z1 or DW-1 in their specs. However, that hasn't stopped many from using it, and successfully at that. One spec that has swung people to using it in Odys is JASO 1-A, which is a fairly rigorous Japanese lubrication standard for wet clutches in smaller engines.

For some reason, I was thinking something like a Magenfine. It looks like an Accord ATF filter on the 6-spd Ody; that one is external and user-replaceable. The 5-spd ATF filter is inside the torque-converter housing (a.k.a. bell housing) and to my knowledge is not replaceable for 2007-2012 Odys.

OF
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for the info guys. I plan on changing the oil and ATF fluid soon. I have about 550 miles on the van so far and want to get out any metal flakes/particles asap.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I had another idea - is it safe to use a fluid extractor to such ATF fluid through the fill pipe? That way, I am sure you can extract a heck of a lot more fluid than by draining it from underneath. It would still be a good idea to open the drain plug and clean off any magnetic particles stuck to it though.

Any thoughts?
 

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With auto trannies most of the fluid is stuck inside the TC. My habit in all cars is to replace the fluid at half recommended intervals which is tricky on a MM vehicle but I wouldn't go more than 20k between changes.


Sent from my iPhone using Autoguide.com App
 
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