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Discussion Starter #1
First post here, lots of good info. I became a member 4yrs ago when we purchased our first Ody (07 EX-L) and lately have been searching for a replacement as this one is getting long in the tooth.
So I’ve zeroed in on a ‘16 EX-L with 88k miles on the clock at a local Honda dealer. I like everything about this van, tires, brakes, susp all seem to be in solid condition - but upon test driving today I couldn’t help but notice moderate to severe shuddering/hesitation upon acceleration. More pronounced thru 1-2-3 and uphill climbs, less pronounced at highway speeds. Drove for 30-40mins and the issue was fairly consistent the entire time.

Now - this van was off-lease and no record of a drain/fill in the database. I guess what I’m battling with is: how likely is it that there is permanent trans damage...vs buying the van, doing 3x drain/fill in addition to a software update. But at that point, if the issue persists then I’m likely into a damaged trans I’m guessing.

These vans are hard to come by in my area and this is the nicest riding one I have tested in our price range, aside from this issue.
I’m thinking of paying for a drain/fill at the dealer mainly to be able to see the condition of the fluid and see how well it responds to the d/f.

Thoughts? Should I run away?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I should add: a) issue doesn’t present so much at WOT, highway on ramp and

b) the original battery was dead dead and would not hold a charge, so I brought an 8 month old good one to test drive. Not sure how long the van needs to relearn/reset after being dead for a couple weeks? but I have my doubts that this is causing/contributing to the hesitation issue.

The tach is clearly hesitating as the issue is happening. The rpms visibly fall just as quick as it feels like they do.
 

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First post here, lots of good info. I became a member 4yrs ago when we purchased our first Ody (07 EX-L) and lately have been searching for a replacement as this one is getting long in the tooth.
So I’ve zeroed in on a ‘16 EX-L with 88k miles on the clock at a local Honda dealer. I like everything about this van, tires, brakes, susp all seem to be in solid condition - but upon test driving today I couldn’t help but notice moderate to severe shuddering/hesitation upon acceleration. More pronounced thru 1-2-3 and uphill climbs, less pronounced at highway speeds. Drove for 30-40mins and the issue was fairly consistent the entire time.

Now - this van was off-lease and no record of a drain/fill in the database. I guess what I’m battling with is: how likely is it that there is permanent trans damage...vs buying the van, doing 3x drain/fill in addition to a software update. But at that point, if the issue persists then I’m likely into a damaged trans I’m guessing.

These vans are hard to come by in my area and this is the nicest riding one I have tested in our price range, aside from this issue.
I’m thinking of paying for a drain/fill at the dealer mainly to be able to see the condition of the fluid and see how well it responds to the d/f.

Thoughts? Should I run away?
3 drain fills for sure, there are some TSB's for a software update to the transmission.
guessing it being a lease nobody care about getting it done.

 

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You might also be noticing the VCM causing additional hesitation over the transmission judder.

Disable the VCM if you buy the van.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
VCM fix would be on the list for sure.

I guess my ultimate question is this: what are the chances of 90k mile trans fluid causing a chain of events that may lead to premature trans failure down the road?
I’m fine with $150 in fluid and doing the drain/fills myself. Also ok with a software update. I would push the dealer to agree to help pay for that.

What I’m not ok with is being buried 6ft under by my wife after getting a $3k bill to pay for a new trans, after spending $16k CAD on a used car 😄
 

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VCM fix would be on the list for sure.

I guess my ultimate question is this: what are the chances of 90k mile trans fluid causing a chain of events that may lead to premature trans failure down the road?
I’m fine with $150 in fluid and doing the drain/fills myself. Also ok with a software update. I would push the dealer to agree to help pay for that.

What I’m not ok with is being buried 6ft under by my wife after getting a $3k bill to pay for a new trans, after spending $16k CAD on a used car 😄
I bought a 2012 TE three years ago with only one documented drain and fill in its 96,000 kms (59,000 mile) lifespan.
I did 3 drain fills within the first week, while covered under the 30 day buyer protection.

no issues.
This generation odyssey, although wrought full of quirks and issues, failing transmissions is not one of them.

What I would do is insist the seller does it, and deals with the TSB, then take it for a run to seal the deal.
if they couldnt be bothered with 100 bux in oil and a TSB covered by the manufacturer, plenty of these vehicles out there for sale.

if the van is at 90k miles, there is some major servicing coming up, timing belt, water pump, tensioners , spark plugs, fluid flushes.
so be prepared for that expense after the purchase.
 

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@Ticket - the standard maintenance interval is 30k miles so yours wasn't behind at all yet. OP's is potentially 3x over the recommended interval.

I agree with you to ask the seller to change it and then test drive it again before buying it. They shouldn't have a problem doing that if they know you're serious about buying it. I wouldn't buy it myself in that condition hoping the drain and fill will fix it, but there's a good chance that it will.

If they sell quick in your area, see if you can put a (hopefully refundable) deposit down to hold it until they can change the trans fluid.
 

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@Ticket - the standard maintenance interval is 30k miles so yours wasn't behind at all yet. OP's is potentially 3x over the recommended interval.

I agree with you to ask the seller to change it and then test drive it again before buying it. They shouldn't have a problem doing that if they know you're serious about buying it. I wouldn't buy it myself in that condition hoping the drain and fill will fix it, but there's a good chance that it will.

If they sell quick in your area, see if you can put a (hopefully refundable) deposit down to hold it until they can change the trans fluid.
It is covid1984... I don't expect used car sales to be booming right now.

Leases are hit and miss... most that lease are the tightest asses with their money I have ever witnessed, close to diesel and EV owners.

They make the monthly payments and do the absolute minimum.
I wonder if they manage the rest of their lives that way.
🤣
 

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It is covid1984... I don't expect used car sales to be booming right now.
true, but minivans are different. They are always in demand and it's hard to find a used one that isn't either completely beat to sh*t inside, or has been neglected from a maintenance standpoint, so the ones that are in good shape always sell fast. even with the covid situation, the clean ones will probably still sell pretty fast.

I've bought a few cars that came off leases and never had a problem. They've all been cars that include maintenance for the first few years though, so they were still maintained on time since the previous owners wanted that "free" coffee and pastry.
 

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true, but minivans are different. They are always in demand and it's hard to find a used one that isn't either completely beat to sh*t inside, or has been neglected from a maintenance standpoint, so the ones that are in good shape always sell fast. even with the covid situation, the clean ones will probably still sell pretty fast.

I've bought a few cars that came off leases and never had a problem. They've all been cars that include maintenance for the first few years though, so they were still maintained on time since the previous owners wanted that "free" coffee and pastry.
you have a point, vans are in demand.
but less so with the covid, I know some in sales and they are hurting.

my wife's 2015 civic came off a 4 year lease with 22,000 miles, clearly from a first time lessor who suffered mileage anxiety.
so that was a case of landing a good one.

all my friends and colleagues that lease, treat vehicles like throw aways.

x amount for so many months, do bare minimum on service, dump the vehicle at the end of the term for another lease.
sell the included winter tires and rims from the inital the sale privately, instead of retuning them with the vehicle to benefit the next buyer.

a whole new level of frugality!
 

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you have a point, vans are in demand.
but less so with the covid, I know some in sales and they are hurting.

my wife's 2015 civic came off a 4 year lease with 22,000 miles, clearly from a first time lessor who suffered mileage anxiety.
so that was a case of landing a good one.

all my friends and colleagues that lease, treat vehicles like throw aways.

x amount for so many months, do bare minimum on service, dump the vehicle at the end of the term for another lease.
sell the included winter tires and rims from the inital the sale privately, instead of retuning them with the vehicle to benefit the next buyer.

a whole new level of frugality!
no doubt car sales are hurting overall, but a clean minivan is still going to sell quick. It would here anyway.

similar story for my other car - i bought it off a 3 year lease with only 16k miles on it. Either afraid of going over mileage or just a grandmom who only drove to the grocery store once a week. Almost 90k miles later and still no major problems.
 

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The van is being sold by a dealer, right? Well, then they should know about the TSB and do it for free. Then test drive again, and you should be all good.

Like others have said through - you have a major maintenance in 15k miles coming up, keep that in mind for the price.

-Charlie
 

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Hard to come by... And this one is at your local Honda dealer...

Have they done the next maintenance interval before selling? So the timing belt/water pump replacement at 100k? They should have done the TSB's and such on the transmission as well which it doesn't some like has been done.

I would make the sale part of them doing the TSB's for the transmission shudder; well documented, if they're a reputable dealer they should balk at this. If they do, walk, because if they don't have your back now they certainly won't in the future. So they do the TSBs, replace the transmission fluid and do the software updates and then you take it out for a drive and see if that's made an improvement. It may take a few miles and it's a big difference, but honestly these transmissions are never "smooth" in comparison to other brands.

We bought our 16 EXL w just shy of 41k on the clock, I "knew" about this issue but didn't know what it felt like. Bought the van and drove it home (which was a good distance away!) and after start/stop driving for 100+ miles I could totally feel the shudder and trans issue. Recommendations from this forum here, 1x DW1 fluid swap later and there was a BIG difference in feel. Two weekends later, the second Trans Fluid swap was done and a bit more improvement, etc. I don't remember the full sequence but within a month I'd done 3x swaps and that made a huge difference, the van drove like a completely different vehicle.

This followed by the S-VCM Muzzler install and front brakes (Centric Premium rotors and Akebono pads) and our 41.5k van felt like it was brand new, a completely different driving experience. Now at 51k it still feels great, no issues.

I've also added a TruCool transmission cooler with inline Magnefine filter and a ScanGuageII to monitor temperatures... The Trans cooler will extend the life of the transmission as well, if I'd only added one to our beloved '02 EXL!!!

And I do the a 1x trans fluid swap with every oil change. Excessive, perhaps, but the van is happy and I feel like I've done something to extend it's life.

Let us know how it goes!
 

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Just bought a 14' with 60k. So the dealer will do these TSB's for free? I had a judder and just did 1 drain and fill so far and it was a huge improvement. I plan to do 2 more drain and fill's however maybe just let the dealer handle it.
 

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Just bought a 14' with 60k. So the dealer will do these TSB's for free? I had a judder and just did 1 drain and fill so far and it was a huge improvement. I plan to do 2 more drain and fill's however maybe just let the dealer handle it.
They have to be able to reproduce the problem. Now that you've made the "problem" better by doing a 1x fluid swap, if you take it to the dealer they may say "...yeah, all normal, nothing to see here..." and do nothing. You're better off to take it in when there's a problem...

Ask me how I learned this? ;)
 

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They have to be able to reproduce the problem. Now that you've made the "problem" better by doing a 1x fluid swap, if you take it to the dealer they may say "...yeah, all normal, nothing to see here..." and do nothing. You're better off to take it in when there's a problem...

Ask me how I learned this? ;)
Gotcha.
 

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Just bought a 14' with 60k. So the dealer will do these TSB's for free? I had a judder and just did 1 drain and fill so far and it was a huge improvement. I plan to do 2 more drain and fill's however maybe just let the dealer handle it.
Add a VCMuzzler which ever version you prefer and good to go.
 

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Just bought a 14' with 60k. So the dealer will do these TSB's for free? I had a judder and just did 1 drain and fill so far and it was a huge improvement. I plan to do 2 more drain and fill's however maybe just let the dealer handle it.
Add a VCMuzzler which ever version you prefer and good to go.
 

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