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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im getting out of my tired 2007 ex-l and was about to pull the trigger on a 2020 ex-l with 16k miles for about $40,500.
Then I found a few things I didnt like about the 5th gen. First and foremost the delete of rear AC and switch to r1234 refrigerant. 5th gen owners complain about the AC just not getting cold.
So I turned to 4th gen and for about $9k less I can get a touring elite with 40k miles and it has a lot of attractive features (hid headlights, RES) and the lower price is important.
Reliability and longetivity is my main concern.
Which would you do?
 

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Take a look at the extensive list of TSB's on for the gen 5

then compare to the gen 4 and make your own conclusions.

all vehicles have that 1234yf in them now, and its crap for the scorching summers in the lower states.
its also 4-5x more expensive... saving the planet with the working class wallets again...
have heard of some evacuating the system of the 1234yf and recharging with R134a with success, needs a coupler adapter.

The exterior of the gen 5 is a meld of the gen 3-4 IMO, which is kind of growing on me, but will avoid owning one myself.
 

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I'd pick gen 4 in a heartbeat. Gen 5 just doesn't have the reliability. Once you disable VCM on the 2016 it will be good enough, although probably not as good as the 07.
 

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Easy choice - gen 4. The upgrades the fifth generation offers (and they are legitimately there - I'm not willfully blind when it comes to gen 4 vs gen 5) aren't nearly enough to justify the drawbacks they bring with them.
 

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Totally agree. Gen 4 all the way. We bought our 2012 Elite 3 years ago with 60k miles for 24k. Looked at new ones recently and came to the same conclusions. They feel smaller, drive funny, have less features. No issues with our gen 4. Extremely reliable

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One more thing, If the touring elite comes with run flat tires I suggest switching to something like the Michelin crossclimate 2’s which are better on all levels
PAX tires were only used for part of the 3rd gen. They dropped it near the end of the 3rd gen and haven't used it since.
 

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On 4th gen vs 5th gen reliability: not a direct comparison, but my 2016 Pilot which shares the same chassis & general upgrades with the 5th gen Ody, has been a real disappointment in the reliability department. I bought it used/CPO in 2019 and I've had on average 1 significant repair per year (3 so far) which have fortunately all been covered under warranty. In comparison, my 4th gen Ody hasn't visited the shop once for a mechanical issue and we bought it new in 2015. It was a couple years ago the Honda CEO publicly admitted that they had let their quality slip and needed to improve their engineering approach....better luck with the Gen 6!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
2016 does not have the lane keeping or auto braking. I consider that a plus. Also on the AC not only did they drop the rear evaporator they also went to the new r1234yf refrigerant which is up to 25% less efficient than r135a, operates at higher pressures(bad), is flammable and if it does burn emits a highly toxic gas almost as deadly as phosgene.
It is also highly corrosive and automotive HVAC techs are seeing system components with holes burned through them in cars as new as 6 months. It also costs at least 10x as much.

The 2018 advertises an optional rear AC. Rather than having a rear evaporator it shares the front evaporator and has additional ducting that directs air through the B pillar. I cant imagine the air is very cold at that point.
 

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2016 does not have the lane keeping or auto braking. I consider that a plus. Also on the AC not only did they drop the rear evaporator they also went to the new r1234yf refrigerant which is up to 25% less efficient than r135a, operates at higher pressures(bad), is flammable and if it does burn emits a highly toxic gas almost as deadly as phosgene.
It is also highly corrosive and automotive HVAC techs are seeing system components with holes burned through them in cars as new as 6 months. It also costs at least 10x as much.

The 2018 advertises an optional rear AC. Rather than having a rear evaporator it shares the front evaporator and has additional ducting that directs air through the B pillar. I cant imagine the air is very cold at that point.
remember... all these "advantages" help save the planet with your wallet while making your life poorer and more inconvenient.
now where have we seen that concept in practice before?
:unsure:
 

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remember... all these "advantages" help save the planet with your wallet while making your life poorer and more inconvenient.
now where have we seen that concept in practice before?
:unsure:
I certainly have no problem changing my expensive "Lasts 10 Years" LED light bulbs at home every 6 months when the electronics go bad . Don't know what you're complaining about. 🤣
 

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Im getting out of my tired 2007 ex-l and was about to pull the trigger on a 2020 ex-l with 16k miles for about $40,500.
Then I found a few things I didnt like about the 5th gen. First and foremost the delete of rear AC and switch to r1234 refrigerant. 5th gen owners complain about the AC just not getting cold.
So I turned to 4th gen and for about $9k less I can get a touring elite with 40k miles and it has a lot of attractive features (hid headlights, RES) and the lower price is important.
Reliability and longetivity is my main concern.
Which would you do?
We have a '12 Touring and an '19 EX-L. We prefer the '12. The lack of fold-flat mid row seats and much more difficult removal of them in the '19 is a big negative we did not anticipate or appreciate. The 9-speed transmission in the '19 is another annoying feature. It's been back to the dealer twice now for "adjustments" and software updates- still just doesn't feel right at times.
 

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Im getting out of my tired 2007 ex-l and was about to pull the trigger on a 2020 ex-l with 16k miles for about $40,500.
Then I found a few things I didnt like about the 5th gen. First and foremost the delete of rear AC and switch to r1234 refrigerant. 5th gen owners complain about the AC just not getting cold.
So I turned to 4th gen and for about $9k less I can get a touring elite with 40k miles and it has a lot of attractive features (hid headlights, RES) and the lower price is important.
Reliability and longetivity is my main concern.
Which would you do?
I would stick with the 4th gen my wife wanted to upgrade from her 05 ex-l to a 11 touring elite and it has been awesome, we've been to FL. and S.C. road trips from Ma. I like the 6sp auto shifts quick and picks up speed much better than the 5sp. I also like the hard drive built in for storing audio files. The nav controls are nice too. I also love the look with the 18" 5 spoke rims.
 

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Take a look at the extensive list of TSB's on for the gen 5

then compare to the gen 4 and make your own conclusions.

all vehicles have that 1234yf in them now, and its crap for the scorching summers in the lower states.
its also 4-5x more expensive... saving the planet with the working class wallets again...
have heard of some evacuating the system of the 1234yf and recharging with R134a with success, needs a coupler adapter.

The exterior of the gen 5 is a meld of the gen 3-4 IMO, which is kind of growing on me, but will avoid owning one myself.
I mostly agree.

Personally I'd go with R152a.
Tests show it's more efficient than 134a and has a lower greenhouse effect. You would still need to figure out how much, but you would need to do that for 134a as well.
 
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