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Hi Chuck,
The center row issues are:
1) The weight of the seats when trying to take them out.
2) After they're out, they don't fold flat for easy storage. Some moron at Honda signed off on seats that lock at about 45 degrees. All predecessor seats folded flat for stacking!!

They are very nice to sit in though.
Well all those things make sense, thanks for the explanation. I guess removing the 2nd row never was anything we used to make our decision. Mainly it was comfort, like you said they are nice to sit in. In our opinion better than all the other competitors. If we needed to move something large enough that we had to remove the 2nd row we would just use my truck but if we didn’t have that we would have considered that feature. Which the Chrysler Pacifica has that category won hands down!
 

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Yeah probably, but wait for a year or two.

Newly-redesigned models tend to have bugs that take time to discover and to work out at the manufacturing level. As for Toyota, the reliability of the newly-redesigned 2019 Rav4 dropped from much better than average to average. (Per CR, January 2020)

Also, Toyota seems to have long model lifespans. For example, the 4Runner dates way back to 2009; Sienna to 2010. (That same time period for Sienna covers all or part of three Honda Odyssey generations.) That leaves Toyota with more ground to recover than a manufacturer with shorter model lifespans, and so the chance of engineering bugs increases.

Dave
Actually the Sienna platform is from 2003. The 2010 update was a reskin over the existing platform.
 

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Agreed, Chuck. So many of us got duped when we drove the 2018s. We purchased based on Honda's reputation and missed what they screwed up with on the 2018 release. Few of us really looked at how badly Honda US changed the design from a great "cargo and people carrying minivan" to a mainly "people carrier." So many here have complained about the middle seat weights and how dogs and people can't safely negotiate the uneven floor when the seats are removed. Like a total moron, I merely test drove the 2018. It drove so nicely, I based my entire buying decision on that criterion alone.

With 20/20 hindsight, I would have asked the salesman to remove and stack the center row seats just to see all the little lumps appear in his stomach and back while performing this task. After seeing a resulting floor that looked like the Swiss Alps, I would have summarily walked away from such a crappy design. The positive experience I received from the 2018 is that now I really know how to shop for a car. Honda US has taught me a lot about what not to buy. It was never this way when the Japanese designed and built these cars. Normally with such a product, I would dump it and get something else but with all cars, to do so you must take a huge loss.
 

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So many here have complained about the middle seat weights and how dogs and people can't safely negotiate the uneven floor when the seats are removed.
After seeing a resulting floor that looked like the Swiss Alps, I would have summarily walked away from such a crappy design.
The seat weight and lack of a completely flat floor are the price of Magic Slide. For our use case (two kids in bulky car seats), it’s a game changer vs. our 2016. We don’t even have to get the kids unstrapped from their seats to gain easy access to the third row. Makes it easy to bring grandparents along! We rented a Pacifica recently and were reminded how much we missed Magic Slide every time we had to load 3rd row passengers. I’ve taken the seats out one time in 19k miles in order to transport some old furniture. The lack of a flat floor was a non-issue. I’m renting a truck from Home Depot for $19 if I need to move a bunch of plywood or drywall.
 

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I agree 100%, Cincybill73. Therein lies the big difference. The older Odys were excellent people and cargo carriers (about 50-50). For mostly cargo carrying, the new ones are duds. We have used the Magic Slides a few times too and they are brilliant. However, some idiot decided to skew the back section 90% to carrying people. I mistakenly assumed I would have equal cargo carrying abilities without having to fork out $30 (our dollars) each time I needed a sheet of something. That's mostly my fault. As for Honda, I won't likely be back. Same goes for about 10 other people who have asked me.
 
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