Base from component speakers?
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2020 Odyssey EX-L - aftermarket speakers - amp vs no amp?
I just had a car audio installer put the Alpine s-s65c component speakers in my front right door and pillar. Turned up the radio and switched back and forth between left and right. The new speakers had no bass - like at all - even with the bass turned up to max (+6). The Alpines' rated sensitivity is 88db which is a little lower than the 90db rule of thumb when using stock head units, but both the installer and Conrad from Crutchfield said it should work great. Not sure if the head unit is just so weak (no one seems to know its true wattage) or what.
Question:
Now I'm trying to decide between getting higher sensitivity speakers or spending another $300 to get a 4 channel amp installed as well. Or just letting good enough be and keeping the stock speakers - they're not that bad... What do you all think?
Question:
Now I'm trying to decide between getting higher sensitivity speakers or spending another $300 to get a 4 channel amp installed as well. Or just letting good enough be and keeping the stock speakers - they're not that bad... What do you all think?
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No 🙂 from the mid range speakers in the door. It had significantly less bass than the stock speaker that was still installed in the driver door.
I haven’t tried it myself but from what I’ve heard using aftermarket speakers somehow effects the active noise cancelation function... maybe that’s just an issue if a sub is installed. Not sure why though.
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Are you saying that the active noise cancellation is picking up the speaker and cancelling out the sound? I don't think it can do that, but maybe? I did only listen to the Alpines with the door open... maybe it was getting picked up as engine noise? Hm...I haven’t tried it myself but from what I’ve heard using aftermarket speakers somehow effects the active noise cancelation function... maybe that’s just an issue if a sub is installed. Not sure why though.
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I’m not exactly sure what the issues is with it. If I recall the issues I’ve read about it causes feedback. I’m not quite sure if it would be related to your issue at all, just thought I would mention it because of the issues I’ve read about in the past, to at least make you aware of them if nothing else.Are you saying that the active noise cancellation is picking up the speaker and cancelling out the sound? I don't think it can do that, but maybe? I did only listen to the Alpines with the door open... maybe it was getting picked up as engine noise? Hm...
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Thanks for the thought. I just listened to the stock speakers with the door open and the door closed. Definitely has more resounding low end when the door is closed, I think it resonates off the floor. Hm.
Your speakers in the doors are all connected to produce a + positive phased pulse as compared to the sub at exactly the same time index producing a 180 degree out of phase - negative pulse.
I have an app on my phone that “listens” to the sound from a test pulse and will determine the phase of each speaker. I find that Honda sometimes will have a wire crossed or a speaker winding crossed which will cause speakers to be out of phase.
The sub in the back is able to be upgraded using a beefier 2 ohm woofer/driver as long as you don’t go over about a 200 watt driver. The enclosure needs some enhancement by adding some polyfill stuffing evenly spaced inside the enclosure to harmonically “tune” the air volume inside to slow the sonic wave reflecting off the back of the inside. If you can get the polyfill just right, you will hear an amazing increase of real low end bass due to the pulse reflection returning to the back of the speaker cone as it moves outward.
There are loads of videos on youtube on how to do this.
I have an app on my phone that “listens” to the sound from a test pulse and will determine the phase of each speaker. I find that Honda sometimes will have a wire crossed or a speaker winding crossed which will cause speakers to be out of phase.
The sub in the back is able to be upgraded using a beefier 2 ohm woofer/driver as long as you don’t go over about a 200 watt driver. The enclosure needs some enhancement by adding some polyfill stuffing evenly spaced inside the enclosure to harmonically “tune” the air volume inside to slow the sonic wave reflecting off the back of the inside. If you can get the polyfill just right, you will hear an amazing increase of real low end bass due to the pulse reflection returning to the back of the speaker cone as it moves outward.
There are loads of videos on youtube on how to do this.
Thanks for the reply Triaque! I haven't touched the sub and the Alpine was connected correctly, so I would expect the doors to be producing at least as much bass as they were with the stock speakers, right? Or are you suggesting that aftermarket speakers won't be able to play the lower frequencies off the head unit, so I should upgrade the sub to compensate?Your speakers in the doors are all connected to produce a + positive phased pulse as compared to the sub at exactly the same time index producing a 180 degree out of phase - negative pulse.
I have an app on my phone that “listens” to the sound from a test pulse and will determine the phase of each speaker. I find that Honda sometimes will have a wire crossed or a speaker winding crossed which will cause speakers to be out of phase.
The sub in the back is able to be upgraded using a beefier 2 ohm woofer/driver as long as you don’t go over about a 200 watt driver. The enclosure needs some enhancement by adding some polyfill stuffing evenly spaced inside the enclosure to harmonically “tune” the air volume inside to slow the sonic wave reflecting off the back of the inside. If you can get the polyfill just right, you will hear an amazing increase of real low end bass due to the pulse reflection returning to the back of the speaker cone as it moves outward.
There are loads of videos on youtube on how to do this.
I saw in another thread that you upgraded your speakers to some very nice aftermarket ones - do you have a spectrum graph of them while hooked up to the factory head unit while playing pink noise? And/or a video/audio recording of them in action? I can do the same and we can compare stock to aftermarket. Spectrum RTA - audio analyzing tool - Apps on Google Play is a good free android app spectrum analyzer with pink noise generator (and many other free features) and I'm sure there are similar ones on iOS
Hi
I do not have a recording of a pink noise signal with the Infinity set that I installed. I know that their full potential cannot be realized using the original tuner nor the EX-L amplifier. However, the bass from the doors thumps the inner door panel and produces great deep bass. Keep in mind that I custom installed 1/2” neoprene on the back of the outer door skins and rear quarters on my van. There’s no comparison to the sound deadening from the outside and the depth of bass from the audio system. I did not want to mess with the head unit nor original amp because I want all the oem features to work correctly.
As far as your swap to an aftermarket Alpine head unit.....I know no power output vs ohm values on your set up but I’d venture to say that if you have it matched up correct power and ohms then phased correctly......you would be booming inside.
I do not have a recording of a pink noise signal with the Infinity set that I installed. I know that their full potential cannot be realized using the original tuner nor the EX-L amplifier. However, the bass from the doors thumps the inner door panel and produces great deep bass. Keep in mind that I custom installed 1/2” neoprene on the back of the outer door skins and rear quarters on my van. There’s no comparison to the sound deadening from the outside and the depth of bass from the audio system. I did not want to mess with the head unit nor original amp because I want all the oem features to work correctly.
As far as your swap to an aftermarket Alpine head unit.....I know no power output vs ohm values on your set up but I’d venture to say that if you have it matched up correct power and ohms then phased correctly......you would be booming inside.
Ok good to hear that you were able to get bass in the door speakers with the factory head unit. I think those alpine's were just too low sensitivity. I'm planning to put dynamat in the doors - should I consider neoprene instead, or in addition to it? What led you down that path?
Also to clarify my posts earlier - I'm not considering swapping out the factory head unit. If I added an amp, it would take the speaker level signal, down-convert to RCA with a Rockford converter, and then 45w RMS per channel from an alpine compact amp. But I'm hoping that won't be necessary...
Also to clarify my posts earlier - I'm not considering swapping out the factory head unit. If I added an amp, it would take the speaker level signal, down-convert to RCA with a Rockford converter, and then 45w RMS per channel from an alpine compact amp. But I'm hoping that won't be necessary...
Adding an amp that small really wont make that much difference. You would need a bit more power to realize the difference.
The neoprene adds elastomeric properties to the door skin if bonded with good compatible 3m spray adhesive. It’s much more difficult to install than any matting but the performance is unmatched. I used neoprene because mold mildew and moisture can’t penetrate it. Rather than just a foam pad. It’ll stink after it gets filth and moisture in it.
I always look for drivers with very high sensitivity for the size and type in its class. Your alpines were LOW efficiency.
The neoprene adds elastomeric properties to the door skin if bonded with good compatible 3m spray adhesive. It’s much more difficult to install than any matting but the performance is unmatched. I used neoprene because mold mildew and moisture can’t penetrate it. Rather than just a foam pad. It’ll stink after it gets filth and moisture in it.
I always look for drivers with very high sensitivity for the size and type in its class. Your alpines were LOW efficiency.
Just a cheap shot in the dark, but is it possible that the Ody has its own sub amp separate from the head unit?Adding an amp that small really wont make that much difference. You would need a bit more power to realize the difference.
The neoprene adds elastomeric properties to the door skin if bonded with good compatible 3m spray adhesive. It’s much more difficult to install than any matting but the performance is unmatched. I used neoprene because mold mildew and moisture can’t penetrate it. Rather than just a foam pad. It’ll stink after it gets filth and moisture in it.
I always look for drivers with very high sensitivity for the size and type in its class. Your alpines were LOW efficiency.
I have a 2005 exl but the bass is still so powerful and deep even with the kids playing with it that I suspect that.Just a cheap shot in the dark, but is it possible that the Ody has its own sub amp separate from the head unit?
There is an amp (possibly two amps) in the right rear panel. I decided to try some infinity reference speakers, leaving the factory amp. They're 93db sensitivity which is about as high as I could find, so I'm optimistic that they'll perform well on the meek wattage it's putting out. Also going to stick some butyl and foam in the doors to quiet things down. I'll report back once it's all installed.
There is an amp behind the passenger very rear corner quarter panel. It’s under the storage bin where the emergency fueling funnel is. The EX-l and the Elite are completely different units.
Installed the Infinity reference 6530cx (front components) and 6532ex (rear coaxials) today. Put some butyl and noico foam inside the door (on the skin and the metal opposite the skin). So far they sound much better than stock and they're plenty loud with the factory amp. I'm pretty happy with it.
I can barely hear the sub in the rear. Triaque, I saw your posts about stuffing polyfill behind it. My installer warned that it can catch fire though... But I suppose I could get some with flame retardant on it or something. The new speakers have decent bass though, so not sure I really need to mess with the sub. Thoughts?
I can barely hear the sub in the rear. Triaque, I saw your posts about stuffing polyfill behind it. My installer warned that it can catch fire though... But I suppose I could get some with flame retardant on it or something. The new speakers have decent bass though, so not sure I really need to mess with the sub. Thoughts?
Compman86
Ask your installer to give you documented proof as to why they said that so that you can self educate.
Please get back with me once you have that information and I will reveal some facts about this for you.
You need to upgrade that driver in the sub enclosure. I replaced mine with a fairly efficient 2 ohm low profile unit from Pioneer and for such a small enclosure with a low power amplifier supplying it.....it’ll rock the world of the passengers inside. The neighborhood at large....not necessary.
I look forward to hearing more.
Ask your installer to give you documented proof as to why they said that so that you can self educate.
Please get back with me once you have that information and I will reveal some facts about this for you.
You need to upgrade that driver in the sub enclosure. I replaced mine with a fairly efficient 2 ohm low profile unit from Pioneer and for such a small enclosure with a low power amplifier supplying it.....it’ll rock the world of the passengers inside. The neighborhood at large....not necessary.
I look forward to hearing more.
Ok you're tempting me 🙂. Was it easy to swap out? Might try doing it myself if so...
I’ll tell you all about how to do it once we find out that detailed proof back information from your installer.
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