[CompMan86]

I just had a car audio installer put the Alpine s-s65c component speakers in my front right door and pillar. Turned up the radio and switched back and forth between left and right. The new speakers had no bass - like at all - even with the bass turned up to max (+6). The Alpines' rated sensitivity is 88db which is a little lower than the 90db rule of thumb when using stock head units, but both the installer and Conrad from Crutchfield said it should work great. Not sure if the head unit is just so weak (no one seems to know its true wattage) or what.

Question:
Now I'm trying to decide between getting higher sensitivity speakers or spending another $300 to get a 4 channel amp installed as well. Or just letting good enough be and keeping the stock speakers - they're not that bad... What do you all think?

 

[CompMan86]

No 🙂 from the mid range speakers in the door. It had significantly less bass than the stock speaker that was still installed in the driver door.

 

[CompMan86]

I haven’t tried it myself but from what I’ve heard using aftermarket speakers somehow effects the active noise cancelation function... maybe that’s just an issue if a sub is installed. Not sure why though.


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Are you saying that the active noise cancellation is picking up the speaker and cancelling out the sound? I don't think it can do that, but maybe? I did only listen to the Alpines with the door open... maybe it was getting picked up as engine noise? Hm...

 

[CompMan86]

Thanks for the thought. I just listened to the stock speakers with the door open and the door closed. Definitely has more resounding low end when the door is closed, I think it resonates off the floor. Hm.

 

[CompMan86]

Your speakers in the doors are all connected to produce a + positive phased pulse as compared to the sub at exactly the same time index producing a 180 degree out of phase - negative pulse.

I have an app on my phone that “listens” to the sound from a test pulse and will determine the phase of each speaker. I find that Honda sometimes will have a wire crossed or a speaker winding crossed which will cause speakers to be out of phase.

The sub in the back is able to be upgraded using a beefier 2 ohm woofer/driver as long as you don’t go over about a 200 watt driver. The enclosure needs some enhancement by adding some polyfill stuffing evenly spaced inside the enclosure to harmonically “tune” the air volume inside to slow the sonic wave reflecting off the back of the inside. If you can get the polyfill just right, you will hear an amazing increase of real low end bass due to the pulse reflection returning to the back of the speaker cone as it moves outward.

There are loads of videos on youtube on how to do this.

Thanks for the reply Triaque! I haven't touched the sub and the Alpine was connected correctly, so I would expect the doors to be producing at least as much bass as they were with the stock speakers, right? Or are you suggesting that aftermarket speakers won't be able to play the lower frequencies off the head unit, so I should upgrade the sub to compensate?

I saw in another thread that you upgraded your speakers to some very nice aftermarket ones - do you have a spectrum graph of them while hooked up to the factory head unit while playing pink noise? And/or a video/audio recording of them in action? I can do the same and we can compare stock to aftermarket. Spectrum RTA - audio analyzing tool - Apps on Google Play is a good free android app spectrum analyzer with pink noise generator (and many other free features) and I'm sure there are similar ones on iOS

 

[CompMan86]

Ok good to hear that you were able to get bass in the door speakers with the factory head unit. I think those alpine's were just too low sensitivity. I'm planning to put dynamat in the doors - should I consider neoprene instead, or in addition to it? What led you down that path?

Also to clarify my posts earlier - I'm not considering swapping out the factory head unit. If I added an amp, it would take the speaker level signal, down-convert to RCA with a Rockford converter, and then 45w RMS per channel from an alpine compact amp. But I'm hoping that won't be necessary...

 

[CompMan86]

There is an amp (possibly two amps) in the right rear panel. I decided to try some infinity reference speakers, leaving the factory amp. They're 93db sensitivity which is about as high as I could find, so I'm optimistic that they'll perform well on the meek wattage it's putting out. Also going to stick some butyl and foam in the doors to quiet things down. I'll report back once it's all installed.

 

[CompMan86]

Installed the Infinity reference 6530cx (front components) and 6532ex (rear coaxials) today. Put some butyl and noico foam inside the door (on the skin and the metal opposite the skin). So far they sound much better than stock and they're plenty loud with the factory amp. I'm pretty happy with it.

I can barely hear the sub in the rear. Triaque, I saw your posts about stuffing polyfill behind it. My installer warned that it can catch fire though... But I suppose I could get some with flame retardant on it or something. The new speakers have decent bass though, so not sure I really need to mess with the sub. Thoughts?

 

[CompMan86]

Ok you're tempting me 🙂. Was it easy to swap out? Might try doing it myself if so...

 

[CompMan86]

It was a parting comment, I don't think he has citations. But googling now, it seems polyfill is 100% polyester which is fire resistant.

 

[CompMan86]

This one looks like the predecessor of the recent Pioneer, just a little lower wattage but higher sensitivity - and cheaper. Pioneer TS-SW2002D2 8-inch Shallow-Mount Subwoofer with 600 Watts Max Power

But it's frequency response is only up to 200hz, and the new model is up to 1400hz...not sure if the amp is even sending frequencies above 200 to it though, do you have any insight?

I'm gonna pick up one of these two. Doesn't seem like there are many other options that would fit anyway.

 

[CompMan86]

Thanks Triaque.

After some more listening, I've noticed that when when a bass drum hits, the rest of the spectrum seems to get muffled... or something. A couple theories: 1) it's just a bit underpowered, and I really need an aftermarket amp to fill it out, or 2) the active noise cancellation is somehow picking up on it and interfering. Any ideas?

 

[CompMan86]

Thanks Triaque.

After some more listening, I've noticed that when when a bass drum hits, the rest of the spectrum seems to get muffled... or something. A couple theories: 1) it's just a bit underpowered, and I really need an aftermarket amp to fill it out, or 2) the active noise cancellation is somehow picking up on it and interfering. Any ideas?

I installed a Kicker Key DSP amp and it definitely improved the sound, but mid bass still sucked from the door speakers. It turns out that the first installer did a shoddy job and the speakers weren't secure - they could move 1/2" and were rattling around in there - and there was no foam tying them to the door or the skin. I secured them and added fast rings to seal them to the metal and the skin, and the mid bass is plenty! I suspect I could have skipped the amp, but the DSP and extra juice is still an improvement. I installed a Rockford Fosgate shallow sub on the stock amp with polyfill behind it and it tightened up the subbass quite a bit, but it's not any stronger. I've gotten a little more power out of the sub by fading the sound to the rear about 30%, allowing me to turn up the master volume another 4 or 5 ticks while keeping the overall volume the same. It does shift the sound stage back a little, but I actually prefer being immersed in the music vs having it in front of me.

 

[CompMan86]

If I did it over, yes, I'd probably get a 5 channel DSP amp to drive the sub as well. Could probably get a ton more thump out of that little enclosure - still only 8" but unless you're a bass head it should be plenty. I agree that the sliding door speakers are really lacking. Partly because the factory amp sends so much less volume to them, but I think mostly because they're so buried back there and it's such a large space. But I'm optimizing for the front row so it doesn't bother me much. Probably would have skipped replacing them had I known how little difference it would make, though I suspect I'd have the opposite opinion if I heard the blending of the factory speakers with the aftermarkets in the front

 

[CompMan86]

You could easily add a micro mono amp to hump a little harder. They are under $100. I keep telling myself, I am spending what on a mini van. I like to drive it and we go on road trips and I like quality sound.

Where would I put it? And would I need to run another power wire to the battery? Agreed that the quality sound makes me like driving it 2x more.